RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: richard on July 24, 2013, 04:59:46 pm
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Okay at Jeans at the weekend could you please check out if the following are present ? Headlamps , back lights, 4" square rectifier, , 6" long connector block ( as per my wiring terminal post ) , starter motor , gearshift , seats - that will probably be enough to look for for now ;)
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Okay at Jeans at the weekend could you please check out if the following are present ? Headlamps , back lights, 4" square rectifier, , 6" long connector block ( as per my wiring terminal post ) , starter motor , gearshift , seats - that will probably be enough to look for for now ;)
This is what I remember.
Headlamps, None. back lights, None. 4" square rectifier, None. 6" long connector block, None. starter motor, YES. gearshift ,YES. seats None.
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Well there ya go Richard, The voice from the wardrobe has saved me the bother. For some reason I am under the impression that the rear lights are those small round jobs made by wipac.wico that were used on BSA Bantams, Tourette, and many many other things in the 1950's. Am I wrong?
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Yep your right Bob - your wrong :D the backlights are I feel sure peculiar to The Gordon . Made by SPARTO, England . Mine were less than perfect and I spent fifteen years looking for better ones, eventually got NOS lenses on ebay last month but they weren't giveaway . The rest not too difficult . Is there a useable petrol tank and tap ?
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When I get home tomorrow I will post some pics of what the Hammonds could look out for in a no doubt large pile of unidentified bits . Let's see if we can crack this one eh ?
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no bob your right they are the rear lights on our gorden
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Someone has fitted the wrong ones, (Wipac) after 2009 when the car went back to Jean. As Richard said, they should be round ones made by SPARTO. See picture ....
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they look like the ones bob has pictured , but i don't know what the are called.
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Sorry micro but you cannot muddle up lights fitted to a completely rebuilt car with what is correct . Not saying it matters for your example but don't get the two mixed up in any way . Hence my love of original period photo's . Fantastic correct lights Rob who's are they ! !
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Yep, its all too easy to copy someone elses mistake assuming they are right.
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I copied part of a photo that you sent me with others around 2003. I thought they were your lights, Richard.
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Ah ! Yep they will be then - they are unfortunately identical to the correct ones but without the clear number plate insert that I found recently as I said . I thought they looked good :D
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they look like the ones bob has pictured , but i don't know what the are called.
'I am Sparto'
No your not. Your Tony Curtis wearing Wipacs and a very naughty boy.
Come see the Gordans at the Rally, just follow the lines of crucified rear light sellers and anyone who looks a bit like Kirk Douglas.
Have not seen those lights to notice before. Best see if we can find some.
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try find these
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and theres more
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still to find out if the square petrol tank, tank cap ( adjustable type) , battery carrier , wipac lighting switch , speedo D shape smiths and starter solenoid are present
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last one but do keep an eye out for these as well
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I can probably help you with the biro... :P :P
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ROFLMHO _ textspeak - come on then any guesses ?
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still to find out if the square petrol tank, tank cap ( adjustable type) , battery carrier , wipac lighting switch , speedo D shape smiths and starter solenoid are present
New tank and battery carrier were made and fitted. Wipac lighting switch , speedo D shape smiths should be with the car.
I was told that you went to Jean's at some point and saw the Gordon?
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ROFLMHO _ textspeak - come on then any guesses ?
ROFLMHO, Rolling On Floor Laughing My Head Off.
How about WIMPBLOB, Wet In My Pants By Laughing, Oh Blast.
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find the rest and it's not far off then :) yep i did pop in but without the crew i couldn't get to grips with The Gordon i.e. didn't open the bonnet and look for any detail . as you can imagine i spent more time with the rarities , the Champions etc. also i didn't identify what was missing . Actually , and i really don't mean to sound patronising at all , i am amazed that you got on with the car so well not having one for reference . you seem to have done all that could be done given the bits that just aren't there !The challenge now is to find if any of the missing bits can be found . ;)
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ROFLMHO _ textspeak - come on then any guesses ?
ROFLMHO, Rolling On Floor Laughing My Head Off.
You sure its not something about Rolf being a homo?
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last one but do keep an eye out for these as well
One degree qualified Whippet I can believe, but two with motar boards is just boasting.
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can't say i appreciate the contamination of the topic by a lot of drivel really but thats life i suppose :-\
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Back on topic then. Do you want me to take a set of detailed photo's of the resurrected Gordon this weekend? If so which areas to concentrate on?
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kind of you bob - if you get a chance 2 queries
pic 1 what is the block , attached to front frame downtube , for
pic2 what is this odd piece for , centre of pic, it's found just above that in pic 1
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and finally , i appreciate there is no wiring on Jeans car but - when i bought cable to wire my car i was told , on the forum i think , that the cable from solenoid to lucas starter motor must be heavy as it would get VERY HOT > since found the old harness and the original ex factory cable from solenoid to starter motor is PUNY i.e. 1 up from lightest ! who's correct ? Yellow cable in pic is as per wiring loom black is as advised
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kind of you bob - if you get a chance 2 queries
pic 1 what is the block , attached to front frame downtube , for
pic2 what is this odd piece for , centre of pic, it's found just above that in pic 1
Funny, I don't remember seeing those parts or fitting them.
Also no solenoid. Where is that fitted. No exhaust system fitted either. Bond type is it?
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I would agree, the cable to the starter motor must be heavy and there must be a solenoid otherwise the ignition switch would soon burn out. Unless the starter motor is the type with a solenoid attached but they are much later I think. So, is the wiring on your car original? Did all the Gordons catch fire due to unprofessional electrics? The plot thickens. Did you actually remove the loom from the soleniod and motor?
Re the photo's, I cant really get my head around them out of context but I will take some pics around that area and hope it enlightens you.
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done long winded reply and attached 3 pics - too much so not loaded - i always have this prob whats the answer ? anyway try again
bottom right of dash is a hole , this takes the pull knob with stiff cable , not stranded, to the solenoid immediately in line but on the inside of the top bulkhead . the two screws and plunger pin come through the bulkhead and 2 cables attach , 1 to starter motor and 1 to battery negative terminal . pull cable and engage starter immediately push knob back in . i had all the bits though needing replacement and, importantly, the holes in the bulkhead which rob did not have !
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and the other pics.
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thanks again both. i didn't remove the wiring etc. it was all disconnected and a jigsaw in a box , but with a poor picture to copy :) in fact i have a feeling i didn't have a harness at all and i got the harness from big al with other Gordon spares . it is however definitely an original cloth bound Gordon harness and the "puny" starter cable is the correct length and in the correct location to reach from solenoid to lucas starter motor - perhaps this is in fact the reason so few Gordons survive . the possibly very hot starter and solenoid is actually fairly close under the bonnet to the fuel tank too :o
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the holes in the bulkhead which rob did not have !
I didn't have much bulkhead either. ;D
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literally AMAZING i could very easily supply a template of where all the holes should be, their sizes and what they are for .was there any sign of it having been burned out ? :D
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Well don't send it to me as I haven't touched it since 2009. There was so much rot all you could see were holes and fresh air! Not good for a body that was coated in zinc in the 1950s ???
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thanks again both. i didn't remove the wiring etc. it was all disconnected and a jigsaw in a box , but with a poor picture to copy :) in fact i have a feeling i didn't have a harness at all and i got the harness from big AL with other Gordon spares . it is however definitely an original cloth bound Gordon harness and the "puny" starter cable is the correct length and in the correct location to reach from solenoid to Lucas starter motor - perhaps this is in fact the reason so few Gordons survive . the possibly very hot starter and solenoid is actually fairly close under the bonnet to the fuel tank too :o
Having just completed starter wire repair/ replacement on my Trojan that had melted, I can attest to the fact that the wire gauge shown in your most recent photo of your newly prepared manual solenoid is far more correct. I would not recomend anything less than a number 10 gauge wire and ring terminal fittings.
With Al's incredible memory of voltage regulator tab identification numbers and even wire colors, I was able to figure out that on my Trojan the wires to the starter and wires to the generator had been switched by the previous owner, which resulted in a recurrent meltdown of all the insulation off the misguided wire.
This was especially challenging to diagnose, as electricity going into the generator coils did result in what appeared to be sufficient engine rotation speed, but alas with too much resistance through the smaller gauge generator wire, and possibly with a reversed direction of rotation.
I always heard that Gordans self incinerated due to insufficient engine compartment air flow. But after seeing the wire to the starter that you've shown, I believe it more probable that this could have served as an ignition filament for gas tank vapors.
After all if it could bring down a jumbo jet, why not a Gordon?
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well steven thats the very first time i have heard of Gordons , a Gordon ? , going up in flames . they certainly weren't known for it . where have you heard that ?
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Did all the Gordons catch fire due to unprofessional electrics? The plot thickens.
Here is one place that I read it.
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perhaps this is in fact the reason so few Gordons survive . the possibly very hot starter and solenoid is actually fairly close under the bonnet to the fuel tank too :o
Here is another place where it was inferred.
Arn't you paying attention, at least to what you yourself are writing?
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Niether Richard nor I have ever heard of a Gordon self igniting, what we both said was meant as a wild suggestion as to why so few survived. Thats all.
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Well excuuse me for taking the both of you seriously.
No mention was made of the facts that you were both speculating wildly.
My confidence in your authorities caused me to temporarily over ride my inexact memory of a car that I may likely never see.
There was at least one other crude English box of the same era that had earned a reputation for self incineration due to minimal air circulation in the engine bay.
One such self immolating wonder was known as the Rodley.
Allard Clippers also had cooling problems, however not as horrifically reputed.
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An early invacar made by Gordon , engine in the rear - no cooling , did gain a reputation for self combustion and was withdrawn by the Ministry of Health . The Gordon Invacar was redesigned with the engine at the side to enable cooling . i spoke to the man involved in the redesign and no such problems reoccurred. The designer then went to Canada on a long term contract ( no he was not banished to the colonies for his sins ) some time later he was "amazed" to see his single seat invacar relaunched as a family car ! after yet another revamp , mainly involving extending the width .
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An early invacar made by Gordon , engine in the rear - no cooling , did gain a reputation for self combustion and was withdrawn by the Ministry of Health . The Gordon Invacar was redesigned with the engine at the side to enable cooling .
Wrong! Vernon Industries NEVER made a rear-engined vehicle of any description. Vernons first got involved in invalid carriage production in 1950 by tendering for a private contract between themselves and Invacar Ltd to produce carbon copies of the side-engined Invacar Westcliff so that Invacar Ltd could continue to forfill their Ministry contracts whilst they moved from Westcliff-on_sea to their new factory in Thundersley. In 1952 Invacar introduced their Mk 8 and no longer required their link-up with Vernon Industries. By this time Vernons had decided that an official Ministry contract was worth chasing and so along came the Vernon Invalid Car after a couple of prototypes, all of which were side-engined!
The vehicle you're thinking of, with a reputation for self-combusting, is the AC All Weather, of which neither Vernons or Invacar had anything whatsoever to do with.
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i stand corrected Stuart ,Tony Thoburn who i have spoken to, mentioned the new design of AN invacar . i gather now that this was not a Vernons vehicle . So Tony was at least partly responsible for the design produced by Vernons , with side mounted engine , which as said had no reputation for self combustion.
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rob did ask what type of exhaust for the Gordon . i am proposing this arrangement with perhaps a 3" hanging strap securing the silencer to the chassis as per illustration i hope ? any thoughts on this please ? the engine is flexibly mounted and the rear springs ( no shocks ) have i think about 2 1/2" of movement .
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extending the thread a little but i got some bits back from the powder coaters today , from my Gordon . Very expensive but they do look and feel lovely and should last . maybe even until i get it on the road ;D he didnt powder coat the petrol tank as he thought the heat would destroy the soldered seams - eeeks never thought of that
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he didnt powder coat the petrol tank as he thought the heat would destroy the soldered seams - eeeks never thought of that
Which could have resulted in a Gordon gas tank explosion that could have destroyed more than just car parts, if he didn't blow a sufficient amount of steam through it first.
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not sure about the powder coating process but the tank is open in 2 places , 1 large cap 1 small tap