RUMCars Forum
General Category => Sales & Auctions => Topic started by: Barry on January 13, 2014, 09:51:45 pm
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Rare opportunity to own the Prototype MINK with Lambretta SX200 engine.
The present owner is open to offers about £20,000+
For further details PM me & I'll forward his details.
Not me! Me being Ian Frankland on Facebook - Bubbles, Micros and scoots.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000619640860
https://www.facebook.com/groups/181148538580472/
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I have always thought this was a fab car. I hope it goes to a good home, preferably in the UK so I will get to see it again.
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agreed but why was the wheelbase so much shorter than the car ? it always looked unbalanced to me as if it would tip forward on braking . love the lines though , obviously Tourette and Bruetsch like but doesn't quite manage to look as nice as either . i would love to have a spin in it , but perhaps frightened to have a turn .
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Yes it has a tremendous overhang doesn't it.
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A proboscis to be proud of.
To my eye, from the viewpoint of silly extremes, it out Tourettes the Tourette, and is in a league of its own against the Bruetsch.
With a 200 c.c. ported Lambretta engine in it, Richard, your turn could well result in a spin, or rollover if pushed beyond the limits of its short wheelbase.
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Much rather have a Rollera or Avolette surely ?
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Which of these were pronounced unfit for the road as a result of a successful suit against its designer?
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NEITHER !! you may be very confused . there was certainly an issue over Herr Bruetsch's earlier design , the Spatz which had been sold to others to build and was unroadworthy . The later cars were quite different with no such issues
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Finding it difficult to imagine the quarter pint sized Rollera being more road worthy than a Spatz.
I think the only reason that they may have been granted exemption from prosecution is that no one in their right mind would actually expect to use them in a normal manner on public roads for regular use in the first place.
From what I hear, it was common for these to have been given over to children to be used as toys, and in at least one case be turned over for long term sand box use!
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well in one case of obviously a buyer from Bruces first auction having more money than sense but not sure about common . i don't really know how useful the rollera is but they do look the part !
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The part of a micro choo choo in a sandbox.
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Rarer and more desirable then either Tourette and Breutsch? The engine brings into Lambretta collect-ability which neither of the others offer. Obscure history as it is not part of the official British market Lambretta organization, as far as can be known. Peter Agg knew nothing of it and held the British rights. Part of those rights excluded the use of the engines in other vehicles. If he could have used the Lambretta engines then things like the Tro Bike would have had Lambretta engines, not Clinton. This is a latish machine as it uses the SX200 unit. So what is its history? Why was it built and for what market?
The method of sale is an option for someone to collect a bargain. Most of these rarities go to expensive to enter auctions now, where just to look cost £100's. Pity I have no budget.
On to Tourettes. A complete Tourette Villiers engine drive unit would seem to have come up. The numbering info with it gives Progress as the manufacturer receiving the unit. Got to be a Tourette has it not? Thoughts of a ID based rebuild are already being discussed as its nearer than anything else thats turned up to another genuine example for yonks.
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" Got to be a Tourette has it not"
No Al. Its far more likely to be from a Progress Britannia scooter that used that same motor, I'm pretty confident in saying a lot more of those were ever made than the car.
ps Welcome back Al!
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A snippet from a report on the NMCR in 1983 (where the Mink first seems to have first appeared) - It dates from 1968 and it is believed the makers were based in Chesham and that the Minx was intended for export to Bermuda. Handling over 40mph is described by the owner as "distinctly odd".
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Over 40 mph seems an unlikely event but if so I would expect it to be extremely "odd"! Nice looking though, rare and historically interesting. Hope it stays in UK, goes to events where I see it and have a drive in it, but perhaps not on main roads!
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Can I say Ladybird with respect to island orders for small cars? Goodness, there is even a similarity.
SX200 was a pretty powerful engine. I think the limiting factor was the odd wheelbase.
Not sure when Lambretta was passed on from Peter Agg, but it would remain so that the engine was unavailable for implant into other vehicles. I am sure Agg had the rights into the '70's, until he looked at Heron Suzuki. A deal would have needed to be done to use Lambretta units. As such it was an ill advised investment, unless there is some factual details we are unaware of.
Does a Tourette have reverse? No real knowledge of the Britannia. I was aware there was a none Sachs scooter. Great use was made of the tag Supreme but I never really understood what that denoted.
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I had a chicken supreme last night and it went rather quickly. ;D
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Yes, they have the reverse dynastart but even if our friends motor has this it could still be a Britannia engine with a change of dynastart for use later in a microcar, then again it could be from a Tourette!
I fail to see the significance, at the end of the day its a Villiers 9e.
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Over 40 mph seems an unlikely event but if so I would expect it to be extremely "odd"! Nice looking though.
Considering its diminutive size, small frontal area combined with decent looking streamlining and the considerable power of the 200 cc Lambretta unit, I would think that even 60 mph would be possible.
Hopefully its gearing would have prevented this, as I would guess that the very short wheelbase combined with just 3 wheels would have made the ride quite darty to say the least.
On the other hand, has anyone any feedback from a drive in a 3 wheeled go cart of similar specification?
I am curious as to the nature of the resulting ride. Certainly someone has been cavalier enough to give it a go.
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Yes, they have the reverse dynastart but even if our friends motor has this it could still be a Britannia engine with a change of dynastart for use later in a microcar, then again it could be from a Tourette!
I fail to see the significance, at the end of the day its a Villiers 9e.
Indeed so, but it has all the correct bits for its installation, as not all 9E are the same. As such its an unusual find. Add the small bits of evidence that came with it. It just has to be worth following the records, if there are any, to see if this can be the engine from a rare car, or scooter for that matter.
It was actually bought as a suitable spare for a Scootacar. Maybe it will lead to a body without its engine stashed somewhere - Devon. We achieved this with a DKR Manx years back, I found the bike, sold it to a collector and later found the correct engine. To say he was pleased is an understatement.
For me, any proof of it being Progress means I would be looking at a faithful reproduction of a car I long rather liked the look of. Its a third original being engine/chassis/body in simplicity. If the ID was found even better. Puts it level with quite a few Tigers etc.
Google produced nil on the Progress Britannia. I seem to recall an attempt to Villiersfy the Sachs powered Storch, which was the basis for the Progress and Tempo, among other badge engineering efforts, to market the German original into home markets. I did find a Progress Anglian posing in front of a Tourette at the 1956 motor show. That looks more like an Adler? is it.
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If you can describe the "bits for installation" I could tell you if they are Tourette. Apart from the engine mounts there is nothing unique. No chain case transmission like other cars. I would wager the scooter had the same type of mounts too. incidentally the Britannia, Briton and Anglian scooters were all Villiers powered. If M### wants to get in touch I can give him more info.
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come on you two , although hugely wandering off Mink , where is this engine your discussing i can't even find it ?
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I imagine it is like a Scootacar unit. Not seen it yet. The original motivation was to nick parts for the rebuilt Scootacar engine, so that suggests the same cooling arrangement. Clearly that might not happen now. Since it has a reverse option it would seem likely it was fitted to something that offered reverse. More than that I cannot say. I merely cast the info out as it seemed rather an interesting find. It is for the owner to decide what he does with it, I theorize on what I would do with it. Anyway it would seem like you know about the unit in question since you have an idea as to where it might be now. I could not possibly comment. The owner has avoided telling me where it came from, not that I am greatly bothered. Other fish to fry but not a Mink.
So are we again looking at a range of scooters offering 150cc, 175cc and 200cc villiers power? The Britannia presumably being the top model.
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Hi Al. Yes a dickie bird did tell me about the engine and who had it. The microcar world is a very small one and its hard to keep any secrets for long. I have studied the 9e units fitted in both surviving Tourette cars and they are identical to what's in a scootcar. I know that because I have a scootacar engine in the Bobette. Remember the red former Mr Goldsworthy car is in Waynes collection just a couple of miles away from where I am so I have easy access to both cars.
I don't know about the engine sizes in the various Progress scooter models, I just have a page from an old motorcycle mag featuring the Tourette and also a scooter and it just mentioned all the range was Villiers powered. I will try and find out more.
One snippet we found out whilst you were away in Siberia was that Carr brothers made the Tourette bodies themselves on site which surprised me, I always imagined the job had been farmed out. Contact has been made with an ex employee so we may learn more!
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I do not know much about Carr brothers, but like the crackers with cheese. To take the step of marketing branded products was a bold choice. The Tourette was pretty early on the scene at 1954. The scooters I have never come across trading, always a Progress was a badged Strolch with Sachs power, 175cc normally. So despite the efforts it seems sales were hard to find.
We will avoid where the idea for the Tourette came from but it is early for GRP again. Perhaps there was other production at the premises like accessories for vehicles. Its all a story that seems little known about.
The Mink is a decade later and really little further advanced than by dint of raiding someone else's parts bin for expensive gubbins as did Carr brothers. The body on this car is extremely fragile and it has had minimal driving use by Mike and Wynn as it is such a delicate car. Very surprised its for sale actually. However the quest to collect all things Fritz Fend/FMR is an expensive one, and requires space, so I assume that is the reason.
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you probably know that i like period detail but where would i find anything period written up on the MINK ? i am sure barry or perhaps malcolm could find us period images or write ups , i can't or haven't yet anyway . things about the Mink that i think look unoriginal at a glance are the harsh black trim , around the screen and headlights , and the steering wheel . not my area i suppose but these details , and also the lack of number plate light which would have been , and still is illegal , strike me us just a bit "odd" was it a concept/ prototype or what ? also isn't that harsh white a bit too stark ? i think this car could actually look a little nicer hmmm
al , what was the ladybird reference a bit back ?
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Mink Links - not much info about.
http://lambrettista.net/2014/01/18/minky-business-the-lambretta-bubblecars/
(Nice looking bloke with the Lawil)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/4578322623/
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8RF6TuUyWAUC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=Mink+Microcar&source=bl&ots=DHAP63MxZ-&sig=kb12b7675esWrnzqPf2kaAKDyLc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UHvdUpbzHY3Q7AbWz4CQCg&ved=0CGIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Mink%20Microcar&f=false
One-off prototype?
http://flickrhivemind.net/flickr_hvmnd.cgi?search_type=Tags&photo_number=50&photo_type=250&noform=t&quicksearch=1&sort=Interestingness&textinput=microcar+mink&.submit=Search+Tags
1968 Mink A prototype built in 1968 by a Midlands company, allegedly intended to be put into production and used as a runabout in Bermuda. 198cc engine which could achieve 55mph and 70mpg.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/albertsbite/5211660984/
http://www.allcarindex.com/main-index/car-make-details/United-Kingdom-Mink/
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strange though isn't it ? wheres the period - 1968 - write ups , hardly surprising that this was not a successful venture , and what exactly is the Bermuda link - surely a little odd . was this the original idea or only because there was no uk interest .
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I do not know much about Carr brothers, but like the crackers with cheese. To take the step of marketing branded products was a bold choice. The Tourette was pretty early on the scene at 1954. The scooters I have never come across trading, always a Progress was a badged Strolch with Sachs power, 175cc normally. So despite the efforts it seems sales were hard to find.
We will avoid where the idea for the Tourette came from but it is early for GRP again. Perhaps there was other production at the premises like accessories for vehicles. Its all a story that seems little known about.
The Mink is a decade later and really little further advanced than by dint of raiding someone else's parts bin for expensive gubbins as did Carr brothers. The body on this car is extremely fragile and it has had minimal driving use by Mike and Wynn as it is such a delicate car. Very surprised its for sale actually. However the quest to collect all things Fritz Fend/FMR is an expensive one, and requires space, so I assume that is the reason.
Well the scooter panels were all Fiberglass so I don't know which came first but I assume the scooter did.
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Sales-Leaflet-1957-Scooters-Progress-Supreme-Company-Moto-Parilla-Three-/301063274866?nma=true&si=78t%252FtH2E7r9CtfWxxKrCdz7JPUA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_63wt_1275
http://www.britishscooters.com/prototypes/
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With some squinting I can just make out, Britannia 200cc, Briton, 200cc and Anglian 150cc. The Tourette drawing looks like its been done by a child! Note it says "ALL BRITISH" [accept for the front wheel hubs!] Thanks Richard
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strange though isn't it ? wheres the period - 1968 - write ups , hardly surprising that this was not a successful venture , and what exactly is the Bermuda link - surely a little odd . was this the original idea or only because there was no uk interest .
I don't know if the RUMCAR archive has anything further, but I've not come across anything in print before 1983. One reason it might have been still born was that other sources appear to indicate that Bermudian legislators wouldn't allow motorized three-wheelers onto their roads before 1971, which would seem to have been a serious flaw in the research of whoever was developing the Mink. But I always thought Bermuda sounded a peculiarly narrow market for a car project made in another country regardless.
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In the dim and distant past research into the Ladybird, by Mick Leeson, yielded information of an island economy and Hotel that was looking for a cheap, lightweight, vehicle to use for shuttling tourists/customers/locals who wanted one, around. It is so near the Bermuda story that it is possibly the same. Thus we have the intriguing prospect of two competing designs working to a brief. Depends what you want to believe, but I happen to favour the fact that there was more than one 'Ladybird'.
In the event it would appear that the Fiat Jolly was ordered by the Hotel part of the deal, probably because the civil end only talked and economic reality meant the business had to invest. Strangely I have a Fiat Jolly Gardinera which was ordered by a Caribbean Hotel. One of some 100 made in two orders of differing specification and now only 5 are thought to remain.
The Mink is a prototype. As such it suffers from some degree of parts bin assembly and necessity over styling. It is what it is and not what it could be.
No great write up as it was not for the British market. Need to research the Burmuda Bugle, or whatever.
Numberplate light, I have a feeling it is under the lip. Though the legal frame of an island nation might not call for one, and in the UK it might have taken advantage of a daylight MOT. After all who, but a lady, would be seen out at night wearing a Mink?
Carr brother look as if they were into extras. Also I assume we are looking at blobby jobby Scooters in GRP. That will be why they did not sell. The Italians and Germans supplied well fitting steel panels, with added styling in some cases. Why would you buy something made of plastic that looked like a dustbin, drummed and fell off as it was not rigid?
I still feel if Scootacar had taken the trouble to style their car, a synche as all gubbins is on the platform that matters, they would have sold a darn site more of them. Some nice colours might have helped too. Who wants a car that has the surface, styling and colour of a bogey or clart? Of course now it makes the car interesting, but a missed opportunity, I think.
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Wasn't this also the idea behind the Nobel sporty? Holiday/hotel work?
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Indeed we are told so. It is an oft repeated niche and some firms made a good stab at turning it to profitable use. Fiat/Ghia for one, but also golf cart/buggy manufacturers, to some extent Argo. Now there are a plethora of low range gadabouts which represent a new area of collection for those with the bravery and foresight to buy up the bargains as they come up. They will replace the French Fridges as the lower rung of small car activity - see early FunTech. I am giving this a pass myself.
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An interesting and drifting topic as we sometimes get. This one has got more and more like that brilliant Two Ronnies sketch - youtube it - Mastermind topic " answering the question before last ! " ;D
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It is Richard but we like it this way! Now every time you pull us up on being off topic and for spelling mistakes its like an invite to do it again! ;)
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Yes I know that bob , I gave up on the spellings ;)
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And capitals, I'll get my coat.
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Should that not be:-
I gave up on spellings. ;) or does the smiley count as a full stop?
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Point(.) well made Barry.
It is now obvious that the perpetrator is due for forty lashes.
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From Jessica Rabbit :o or the Siba cat-o-nine tails developed from the dynostart by a Naval man putting it together wrong ::). Well he enjoyed it :P.