RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: micro marshall on March 05, 2014, 07:30:15 pm
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I was wondering after watching a BMW 700 racing, what is the best racing micro car?
I think it is the fiat 500 abarth (if it classes as a micro) ;D
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For the mini micro class limitation of 700cc for pre 1970 cars, I'd say your nominees are on the button.
I've seen period race videos where the BMW 700s knocked the socks off the NSUs.. Which is humiliating as I have a few Sport Prinzes, and a Prinze.
Not to over generalize, however for the 1000 cc category, as the NSU tt made for an awesome racecar with its 4 cylinder transversely mounted air cooled over head cam motor over its rear axle and twin weber carburation mounted atop a huge C shaped intake manifold.
And certainly the Fiat Abarths have earned a reputation for winning class events in the sub 700 cc range.
For newer mini micros under 700 cc, I think that the title should go to the Autozam AZ-1/ Suzuki Cara. I've seen track footage of a race prepared version that was shockingly fast.
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Steyr Puch 650 TR was meant to be faster than an Abarth 500. Probably like the BMW, as it could rev better being opposed rather than a pair upright. Although the NSU has got advantageous cam drive. They are safe to 7,500 revs. They chose not to offer much in the way of a tuned 600cc twin. Simpler to go 4 pot. But they never did a Sport Prinz with that engine. Instead the Wankel came in and is technically in class despite that the car morphed into the Syder. You could get a high compression top end for the 600cc later unit. The BMW certainly performs well for a package that at first glance looks a bit suspect. I do not doubt the chassis is well tweaked to get the handling. I believe the Martini cars were looking at at least 75 bhp out of 700cc. John Bannell is on about that, if he wants it, with his more modern resourced injection version. The dark horse might be from Japan, who could just squeeze something like a Honda 600 in with bits from the Motorcycles on. Front wheel drive would suit certain courses. Then you have the Enfield Berkm perhaps rather hailing from an earlier era but sporting front wheel drive.
However these are not really microcars in the old terminology. For shear toughness in ralles and enduro events the Goggo did well. Do not forget the Berkeleys, fragile they might be, but good running, in experienced hands, these are serious little racing cars. The triple would see off the competition on a circuit, I think. Not so sure when you turn to long course. Ken Piper proved a good driver in a Tiger can put in very good performances. The Tiger is more rugged than a Berkeley but again you have a fragile engine. The difference is the Excelsior tends to fail terminally, the TG500 tends to wear but keep going, meaning a rebuild after each serious event. It is part of the Tigers attraction as it was a giant killer in its day.
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What about the ISO'S in the Mille Miglia?
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We are still waiting for them to finish.
Sorry you asked for that one.
Indeed they put in a stout performance but I fear they would not keep up with the later, and larger cars. I believe the ISO was nominally 250cc with its unusual engine. So would it outperform a Goggo 250cc from a few years later, or a Zundapp, which is surprisingly sprightly? Gaining entry to the MM was never easy and the Italians liked to pack the event, why wouldn't they. I believe the Berkeleys did a few.
Then of course there was the Liege Bresca Liege microcar rally. But these old events tell us of the entrants, not the potential of those who chose not to compete.
Paul Klineschnittger made a racing car. It used to be at Story and, I think, one of Otto's prize exhibits. They had it doing circuit and bumps one year I was there. Indeed was it when PK was there? Steven M ought to see that, he would be out making a replica.
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Rather a rash statement AL considering they were 1st 2nd and 3rd in their class they were probably the only ones in the class but they still finished!
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also remember the ISO's were bubblecars and not minicars like the others.
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How did the Berkely B90s, B95s, and B105s fare?
Where do they belong on the mini- microcar scale?
Are the three hundred twenty eight cc engined Berkeley's considered to be more truly micro?
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Rather a rash statement AL considering they were 1st 2nd and 3rd in their class they were probably the only ones in the class but they still finished!
I think not, as I did point out that the Italians packed the event. If I was the only entrant in the Olympic Marathon, I win, but it does not make me a Marathon runner!
The Astra held several lap records in Britain till beaten by the Berkeley, as I told Ian Richie - successful hill climber. Did he rush out to buy the one looking for a home? It seems not. He wants a Gordon.
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How did the Berkely B90s, B95s, and B105s fare?
Where do they belong on the mini- microcar scale?
Are the three hundred twenty eight cc engined Berkeley's considered to be more truly micro?
Clue is in the engine size. Under 500cc is prime microcar territory. So the B90, which was raced, is in at least.
Not sure the 328cc was raced by the factory, but clearly some did race as they held lap records and competed against Goggos. The trike would presumably be pushed into the sidecars as three wheelers are not allowed to race with 'cars' in FIA events since a Morgan upset the Bentley Boys by being the first car to average 100 mph round Brooklands, driven by a lady!!! Whoops.
'I say change the rules, Bunty. Can't have pip squeaks driven by the memsahib taking trophies, old boy. Just isn't done. Be playing Goff next.'
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No AL you said you were still awaiting them to finish well they did 1st 2nd 3rd sorry rash statement stands you can make all the rules you want but if there is a class then they entered and won!