RUMCars Forum
General Category => Microcar News => Topic started by: Jim Janecek on March 12, 2008, 02:24:09 PM
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Italian TV coverage here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOCl7KLE6xM
I am fairly certain they filmed this before everything was set up and done as there are still work lamps laying about.
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Many thanks Jim ! Now i know where is this famous Inter with special wings, which was for sale in France in 2004. Rumors said it was in Italy, but now it
is verified! Bob, you should see this video, you''ll like it !!
And it seems a beautiful Volpe appears. I don't understand why this kind of film let appear only cars that we all know (Isetta, Tiger etc...) and don't take time to show the exotic ones (Inter, Volpe etc...)Whatever, it was a pleasure to see that. But i did not understand many things in Italian spoken....
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I don't understand why this kind of film let appear only cars that we all know (Isetta, Tiger etc...) and don't take time to show the exotic ones (Inter, Volpe etc...)
Because it appears to be a TV News report piece, not an "official" document of the exhibit.
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Hey what a great little film! Its the first time I have seen that Inter , I wonder what the wings are adapted from, maybe a schmitt or even custom made, what a strange thing to do!
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Bob, it is the second Inter i have seen with this kind of wings. I must admit i like this shape, more "bulbous".
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Don. Do you think that SNCAN really made some like that in the factory? Sorry but I dont like the shape, its a corruption of the original design.
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Dear Friends
For those that are interested, here is the official web site for the exhibition that will be on from 6 March to 6 April in Rome
http://www.macchinette.org/index.html
Nice photo of the Volpe
Chris Thomas
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(http://microcar.org/files/inter_francy.jpg)
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Bob, it's your right not to like this shape but some were original from factory, i am almost sure. In the 70's, my father bought an Inter, which had not been restored, entirely original (not a bodge) and had this kind of wings !
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Donald, Are you sure its not the same car as this one? Do you have any photos of it? Looking at this picture I can see that it has been altered unprofessionaly in a few ways. The aluminium trim has been shortened leaving a hole exposed, there are messerschmitt engine cover catches fitted, all this tells me that it is a modified car. The other thing that makes no sense is that the shape of the nose tells me it is an early body, the early cars were made so that the axles could fold. My car was made this way, there is still part of the mechanism on the car. Surely, having these big fixed wings would be defeating the purpose, it would not allow the car to go through narrow gaps. Sorry Donald but I'm not convinced that they ever made them like this. I may be wrong, It could have been an experimental prototype.
Could this be the car your father bought in the seventies and has found its way to Italy? I still think it one that someone modified. Perhaps we will never know, a mystery like my Torpedo!
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Bob your right considering this car has been restored, so perhaps modified, but this is not the car my father had. I send you a picture tomorrow of the other Inter, which is still in Paris since many years.
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Great! I would love to see it. I have always said about Inters "No two cars are the same" and the variations never cease to amaze me! Donald, I will do a deal with you, I will accept this is factory built if you will accept that my car is a genuine Torpedo! Is it a deal?
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(http://microcar.org/files/inter_front.jpg)
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Deal !
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Jim, where did you find these pictures of the Inter ? I could not find on the website....Or perhaps do you have the catalog ?
On the website i see only 4 cars (Volugrafo, Volpe, Isetta and Tiger)
Thanks for the answer !
Don
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Oh I say! The view from the front is better! Don, does Claude remember what the wings were made of, steel, aluminium, fibreglass ect?
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Bob, wings were in steel and on the "nos" on the Inter, on the right side, it was a big 12 written in white (or black, i don't remember). Wings were not exactly the same. I look fot the photos and i send it to you. Sadly this Inter is not in his original state anymore because it has been restored. And the pictures show it restored.
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I look forward to seeing the pictures Don.
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Jim, where did you find these pictures of the Inter ? I could not find on the website.
Francy sent me photos of all the cars in the exhibit a few weeks ago.
since the Inter was being discussed I thought it would be better to see a photo of it rather than refer to the video!
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Jim. I'm very glad you have shared these pics with us, its certainly sparked some interest with Inter lovers. Don, I have just found the picture you sent, it was on my other email. I am so sorry to have to go back on our little deal but I'm certain this car didnt come out of the factory like this. No inters were produced with two tone paint, only red, blue, green or cream and this one has had it's body seam that runs the full length of the car filled in with body filler , the aluminum trim discarded and had the chequered tape stuck over the top, Even if all this was done after your father owned it there is something else that makes no sense, this one is a later car with the lower headlight and the other blue car is an early car with high headlight, why would they make one car with wings early in production and then one other with different shaped wings much latter in production, none of this makes any sense. On the other hand, nothing about the Inter production seams to make much sence so who know? You also mentioned that it had a big number twelve on the side, all this indicates to me that it was modified by a latter owner and perhaps used for competition. Thank you very much for the photo Don, both the modified cars are great but I have changed my mind again and remain the doubting Thomas!
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Bob, i told you it was restored ! So that is the reason why it is in two tones now. Originally, my father bought it when it was totally sand creamy colored. It was in internal dutty in an aeronautic factory (the previous owner told it to my father), like others near my home. So perhaps the 12 number was an identification for the car in the base (#1)
If you don't want to believe it is an original factory Inter, that's your problem ! Who can really absolutely be sure of what is original and what is a bodge ? Nobody, even people who owned many different Inter. Like Socrate said " all i know is that i know nothing". To be too much affirmative is dangerous if you want my advice. Did you see documents saying : Inters are produced in red, blue , cream etc....And if yes, are you sure they had time to do what the advertisement said ? i just saw one red Inter :It was the Chaufailles museum exemplary, sold in Germany. is it a reason to conclude it was produced in red ?
With this kind of affirmation, my Avolette cockpit, which is the only one known until now with this shape, is not an original. But when you see the work done, it is almost impossible it has been done by a man in his garage to modify his car....to complicated to do with tools available in a home.
Near the little city where i live, a friend met in the 80's an old guy which gave financial help for the Inter production : he did not save anything except a factory photo, showing 10 Inters side by side in front of the Villeurbanne factory. I am not sure i have the lust to share it, if it is to hear it is certainly a fake....
I am sorry with my pig character, but i hate affirmations, especially on obscure history of little french microcar production during the 50's. I would never permit myself to be absolutely sure of something on a little production of cars.
#1 : in 1986, in "Les Mureaux", there was a factory of the N.A.S.A, depending on the S.N.C.A.N. One day, my father spoke with a guy who said : "what, little cars with three wheels, i think i know someone working in the nasa who knows that ! Let me time." Some weeks later, the guy came to see my father with a box, containing an Ydral 175 gyrostarter with reverse. The guy said "i'm sorry, the factory had three remaining cars like you said but it was destructed month ago. They just kept this motor".
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With all these Inter details & history snippits floating around, how about someone setting it all down in writing in the form of a feature article for RUM Car News????? :-*
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Sorry Don, I misunderstood your last post, So, I think I have it right now, this photo was taken at a latter date after your father had sold the car to someone else, and it was subsiquently 'restored'. Got it! That is an interesting story about the cars being used on the air base ,it also explains the number on the side, I have heard this account before from Gilles Perez, it makes me want to break down and cry to know that Inters were broken up as late as the 1980's! Incidently it was Gilles who told me about the Colours, being the man with the Inter register I would naturaly beleive what he said, you have to admit that they usually are these colours? I'm sorry If I sounded dogmatic and that you had to quote Socraties to me, its just pure passion for Inters that drives me. Never the less I should show more respect for a native of the country of the cars origin. Im keen to learn as much as I can about Inters but I cant help having opinions about what is myth and what is fact, as you say its usually impossible to prove either way. You mentioned the factory photograph, I dont expect you to share such a precious document but can I ask, do any of the ten cars in the photo have wings or are they all the usual type? Lets stay friends Don, as Socraties once said "Life's too short"
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That's right, the guy made a restoration, but not in an authentic way : aluminium replaced with a "taxi from new york" paint on the sides, the two tones etc....I'll try to find a photo before this restoration, with some rust, you'll love it !
It is normal that Gilles told you this story, he heard that by .....my father ! I remember when i was younger seeing Gilles coming to our house for the first time and seing for the first time "in live" an Inter i think.
You know Bob, i don't deserve more respect than anyone else, i just wanted us not to be too affirmative : my post had not the ambition to tell you something bad, in contrary. I am a 28 years old simple guy enjoying to learn and to drive old vehicles. I have the luck to share this passion with my father, who is, at 69, one of the more experienced person i know, with a big knowledge of cars in general, and microcars in particular. Still friends i assure you, i made a writting error if you understood the contrary. It is so hard to be understood with another language than mine.
All Inters in the photos had "normal" wings, but two had special publicity paint. When i'll see him, i will ask if i can show the photo : i respect my father's stuff, because it happened that he shared things in the past and the persons took glory of what my father gave them. Time make suspicious !
Life is too short, it's right !
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Is this familiar?
(http://microcar.org/files/inters_outside.jpg)
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Very INTEResting.
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ok here i am , my name is Francesco De Cunto aka Francy.
and "MACCHINETTE" is a creature of mine ,basically it is part of my collection with a little(big) help from my friends
a special thanks to Geroge Blau which involved me in the 1998 edition of story treffen, to Jim my preferred victim for thoughts,talking,advice and any kind of info about cars and what else related to microcars and not only.
i have seen two questions microcar related on this forum .
first the Inter yes is the one sold in south of france about 3 years ago and yes it was a one owner car and it is no late or early car ,it is a non folding model with his original wings , it is overspryed in the same color and the only defect i can see is the shortened trim and the messerschmitt locks. it run an drive well after a rebuilt chain drive sprocket and new elastics.
the red and yellow is a moto scoot (it is the make) moto kar (it is the name ) built in 1938 powered with a Lauson 2,5 hp engine with a kiekafer centrifugal clutch belt driven and it is really cute and micro .
about the pictures of the cars . the exhibit is equipped with a book catalogue printed in 5000 copies sadly right now just in italian and what Jim posted is the material i sent him when the photo job was in progress ,if somebody want it i can ship the catalogue ,it is priced 35 euros but i can have a few copies for 30 during the show .
between the others isocarro fram king mopetta janus spatz and a huge selection of isetta including a 3 wheelr prototipe of late 1956
ciao
Francy
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Oh, Jim, now you'v really done it! Actually I have seen this before but cant remember where. Its interesting to see that even back then microcars were used for advertising just like the Smart car today! Donald you are right, none of us can really say with certainty much at all about the goings on of a small car production concern such as this one, there appears to be very little that survives in writing , just a few documents about the gyrostarter and the Ydral law suit with Westinghouse ect. As I said before, there are subtle differences with all the Inters I have seen both in the metal and pictures, having said that I have only actually seen five Inters in the metal but thats proberbly more than most people. My theory about the colours is that they used just the three colours, sandy cream colour like my first Inter which was in original paint, the turquoise blue and the olive green, as far as the red and dark blue like Gilles car is concerned I have some doubts about. What do you think Don? Your father Claude is very respected amoung those interested in french cars, I first heard about him from Jean Delclos i think, I did write some letters to him years ago when restoring my first car asking for help but got no reply but this is a problem with englishmen we assume everyone speaks english! Please give him my regards. I am hoping one day that there will be a grand Inter owners gathering In France where we can all examine each others cars. Who knows, it could be sooner than we think. Cheers, Bob
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Hello Francy, welcome to our forum! Your Inter is facinating and your collection is magnificent! I would be very interested to know what the chassis number of your Inter is . Do you have any pictures of it before it was restored? Congratulations on the exibition. Best wishes, Bob
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sorry for my ignorance but if you tell me where the chassis number is saturday when i go to the show i will check.
ciao
Francy
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On the early cars the number is stamped on the body work under the engine cover, just lift up the engine cover and you will see the number punched on the vertical piece just below the hinges and also on the matching piece of the engine cover its self but you have to get your head under it to see this. Sometimes it is hard to find this because it gets filled with the paint. If it is a late car there is actually a chassis plate with all the details of the car, this will be on the rear bulkhead just below the fuel tank. I hope you understood all that Francy! I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers, Bob
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Well Donald, That sounds like two cars in original paint with different wings on them, looks like you were right and I was wrong, seems quite likely now that the factory made some like this, I would love to find out when they made them and maybe Francy's chassis number will give us a clue. I'm off to bed now with a cup of tea and a very big slice of humble pie!
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I've been following all these topics & snippits on Inters, and I think I'm becoming an Inter fan! Bob, get yours to the next Open Day forthwith & let me have a good gawpe at one! :o
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Congratulations Francesco, i am happy a microcar enthusiast owning this fabulous inter now. I remember calling on the phone the seller : he told me it was his father's car, and i could hear in the phone the father saying loud "it is a messerschmitt inter" ! Funny !
Bob, yes, my father and i saw all the colours you said, and we saw too 5 dark blue inters, so perhaps was it an original colour (Gilles did not repaint it i think, except the wheels, which was a good idea i think !)
Red is only on one we saw, and we don't know if it is original or not. I am sure some day we will have mor informations on the production with this obscure car, evrything is possible : i have heard speaking about a guy who have find in a house all blue prints, some spare parts and documents about the "Helica". Considering the Helica was produced in the 20's, and that the guy found all this stuff in 2005 i think, we must be patient some more years for the Inter story !! The problem with the inter is that we don't have any family name involved in the production, so it is hard to find patents or a family house with many treasures inside !
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Hi Stuart. It will be there registered or not and we will drive it down Jeans lane legally or illegally and you can gawpe till your hearts content! Thats a promise so long as its not raining, I dont want it filling up with water on its first day out! Can you see though Stuart how all the confusion starts with these cars, most companys design a car and build a few hundred before changing anything at all , these guys changed things on a daily basis from day one as the mood took them and all this through a production run of less than three hundred cars. After a while one learns that its dangerous to assume anything at all, I suppose its because of the hand built nature of the cars and the fact that they had not made cars before. Stuart, as you are in club joining mode you could always join Club Ydral but the mag is all in French as one would expect.
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Bonjour Donald! So Dark blue is also on the list! Have you spoken to Gilles recently? He is a hard man to track down. Another thing I ment to tell you, you know the Inter badge that goes on either side of the nose? Well when I had number five's body striped down to bare metal there were no holes in the metal for these badges, Gilles gave me a pair or badges from another car so I fitted them anyway, so it seams that the first cars didnt have this badge. Looking at the cars outside the factory photo I cannot see the badge on these cars either.Or am I jumping to conclusions again?
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No, it is very rare for me to see or speak with Gilles . I still receive his best wishes card each year but he has i think a big agenda and i too ! In fact we all have many things to do and it doesn't prevent time to go on !
Stuart, if you become an Inter fan, you must be a good guy, it's sure !
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Hi Francy, I hope you have looked in again on us . I have posted some pictures to show you where to find the chassis number on your car the first picture has arrow showing the position for the stamped numbers on an early car. The second shows position of chassis plate for a later car. Hope this helps. Regards Bob. I give up trying to post the second pic, its just not having it. Francy , I have emailed both pictures to you.
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Hi Bob
Your Inter is a little gem, looks mint after your hard work.
So Francy seeing your forum user name, do you have a Mivalino?
This is a very interesting rare car
John
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hi John yes i have more than one and in this period i am trying to refine my collection with cars i have not in swap with the ones i have double or triple.
ciao
francy
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Near where I live, someone sold a very poor condition MESSERSCHMITT on Ebay it sold for a lot of money for the condition, the buyers id. on ebay says mivalino and they are all the way from Italy.
Do you think this car is a Mivalino or are the buyers just crazy, the dates are wrong for a Mivalino if the seller has the right date?
So if an eBay user named ISETTA had been the High Bidder, would you be asking if that buyer thought the Messerschmitt was an Isetta?
Also- the Buyer's eBay ID is not "Mivalino", it is MYMIVALINO
I know this buyer and I am quite certain he knows that he purchased a Messerschmitt KR200 that needs restoration.
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Hi Jim
I just thought I may have missed something.
I am new to this but even I realised the car wasn't an Isetta
John ;)
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hi bubblecars addicts,
looking at that topic, i read about your great inter interest !
i remeber the red one at "la clayette" museum, bought&sold immediatly by sharks ...it was in 1986, i was still inter's fan, but not as serious as today , to "peel it off" conciensiously ! and unfortunatly, it was not for sale at this time.
may i remind you about our frech bubblecars rally , and the guest bubblecars ; THE INTER ! we'll have from 5 to 10 inter on display during this weekend , ( unfortunately not Bobby's one ! don't you have a friend that can comes with it ?)..(inter's owner will sleep for free at our special inter sponsor ' hotel :" Le Moulin Rouge ***" for free !!
don't miss that biennal meeeting ! shows, dioramas, gastronomic food & good wine ,special bubblecars swap meet , and a lot of bbls, triporteurs & scooters to see ...
(http://i54.servimg.com/u/f54/11/44/77/74/affich11.jpg)
hurry up to be registred !all infos on http://bubblecars.aero-jean-do.com !!