RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Jean on December 19, 2008, 06:55:49 PM
-
I have had emails from a gentleman who feels the reason people are reluctant to keep me updated when they sell or discover a car is that the Register serves only to inform those whom compile it. Unless the information on it is made accessible to one and all it’s of little use to any micro owner. I explained that when I initially set up the Register 25 years ago the confidentiality clause was essential before anyone would give me details of their cars in case I was a dealer trying to snap up a bargain!! The original purpose was to locate the rare cars and keep track of them to make sure they did not get lost forever and help those trying to preserve them with as much information as possible. Also all the information about the cars helps to build up a picture of any one make and this information is available through the Register to any genuine enthusiast. I wonder if the emailer is a lone voice or, as he claims having discussed this subject at rallies, a good many feel that multiple collectors are not true enthusiasts and see fit to auction or sell off cars overseas when the wind changes direction and this would be prevented by much more openness. I would be very interested to hear other people’s point of view. As I intend to hand over the record keeping of the Register to someone else in 2009 this would be the time to change the policy of the Register if it is necessary. What do you think? It is your Register I am only the keeper of the records. If the Register cannot be kept up-to-date there is little point in keeping it because any information available be passed on would be incorrect. Do you think the Register serves any good purpose? Do owners of rare cars get any help from the Registers’ archives? Is the information that has been amassed over the years of any help when trying to retain original registration numbers? Do you want to be linked to owners of like cars? I would welcome your views so that the Register may go forward in the way in which you the enthusiasts want it to. Jean
-
the longer the Register exists, the more valuable the information in it becomes for those who want to track down more information about a microcar they have purchased or are thinking of purchasing.
Even if there is a gap in the records where someone did not want to include their personal information, the older records are still there and at some time a new owner may want to research the car and it would be very good indeed to find that information however spotty it may be.
There are some Registers of Automobiles that I know of that are compiled but not available except by paying for access to the information. And yes some people do compile Registers to later wield that information as a bargaining chip or to pass themselves off as an expert in some field simply because they run "the Register" of whatever that item is.
I would not worry too much about owners not wanted to update the information in the Register. No one owns a car forever and eventually it sees the light of day and a new owner and they are excited and want to learn about the history of their new microcar.
Regarding making the information accessible to one and all: Are there not some sort of Privacy Laws in the UK that prevent the dissemination of this sort of information?
That was my impression. I don't know, I am in the US.
And if "multiple collectors are not true enthusiasts", I guess the Coopers and the Bubblecar Museum are not true enthusiasts?
I mean, they just sold off more Microcars at Auction than Bruce Weiner did in 1997.
As far as "Why" should anyone include their car in the Register of Unusual Microcars... You need to give people a reason to do so, don't just assume everyone wants to have their personal information in a list someplace with all the cars they own. Many people don't think it is anyone else's business what they own or what they do with their things.
-
An excellent topic Jean and one that we all should feel free to air our views about. Jim made a point about some recorders of registers having ulterior motives, for instance if someone sets up a register for a certain rare and valuable microcar, often when previously unknown example surface its the register who usually gets to know of it first and if its for sale usually gets first crack of the whip which in my view is wrong and could be why some view all registers with suspicion. I am not suggesting that this is the case with rumcars, in fact I discussed this question with Edwin years ago and he assured me that he only bought cars that had already been advertised and that know one else wanted, looking at the condition of many of the cars in the collection with respect I wholly believe that was the case with the possible exception of the Tourette which I only mention because I'm jealous! :). Having restored rare cars in the past I have to say that the register has certainly served its purpose where I'm concerned and Jean been most forthcoming with what ever information was available and she has already been most helpful to me with my latest project although I think that she secretly disapproves. >:( .With regard to secrecy there is the data protection act which basically would prevent Jean giving out owner details without the owners permission but this is already and has always been the RUM policy as far as I am aware. I suppose one possible change to policy could be to ask owners if they want the information pubic or not at the time of registering a car, the "Tick the box" type of thing. Maybe just making info available to owners of the same type of vehicle. There will always be people who for what ever reason decline to register there cars and as Jim said it should not be a reason for concern. The point of view that the information only benefits the keepers of the register in the case of Rumcars is in my view not valid and also not a widely held view, I suspect just someone sounding off. I say well done Jean and keep up the good work and who ever it gets handed to also, lets hope its not to a wheeler dealer type or the register will become one huge sale catalogue!!!
-
I have read wiuth great interest Jeans artical on secrecy .
From what I have read & also on the forum it seems to me a genuine & excellant way to assist ALL microcar owners .
The teccy info is CLEAR , HELPFUL & ACCESSABLE to anyone who needs it .
Owners are preserving antiques of the modern age , & with help from this site , had it been around at the time , we might still have Da Vinci's Flying machine. . More power to RUM cars . Someone will always grumble about something .
My only grumble is that I am not totally convinced that Invalid cars are actually cars ?
Thats probally upset someone ! However thats my own personal feeling & that perhaps too much time is taken up with them . Personally cars for me are defined by Road Tax , MOT's etc & I'm not sure that Invalid Cars fall into this catagory.
-
At last someone who agrees with me and is not afraid to say so! Whether they are cars or not is not my beef, just the fact that the RUMCARS image has been tainted by them for so long. To my mind microcars should reflect an image of fun, fifties and sixties style, the trendy image, even glamour , when you drive down the road in a bubblecar everyone smiles, if we want more to join and subscribe this is the image we need to push, when folk glance at the RCN or the forum and see lots of images of conveyances and the like it turns them off. Happily now Stuart has his own journal which will rightfully cater for those that are interested but we will probably be faced with bathchairs , wooden legs and who known what on the forum for some time to come. Yes, yours and my comments will upset some but forums are for sharing views and all are entitled to share there's without fear so long as we try to avoid being offensive, in the longrun it makes for better understanding. I feel the invalid carriage guys are to be commended though for there enthusiasm, Stuart for one has made great strides in uncovering the history and diversity of these machines and its a shame that the same level of enthusiasm has not been applied by other mainstream microcar 'enthusiasts'. I for one am very pleased that a move has been made to put a marker between conveyances and Rare microcars and even more pleased that the move came from Stuart himself. I'm looking forward to Stuarts further contributions to RCN on other rare and off beat topics. Lets have some more views, perharps from the other side of the fence.
-
I always felt that Rum should change its name to the unusual microcar club,the register thing put me off joining for years,as i thought it was just a register,didnt know there was a magazine etc.
-
An interesting thought Dan. I suppose in reality its never been and still isn't a club. Its a register that puts out a journal. Its just that to the subscribers it feel like its a club. It could be turned into one I guess but would it really change anything apart from swallowing up the time of members who would have to be appointed as officials, committee's etc. It seems to work and serve its purpose as it is. It would be good to raise its profile though and I think that will happen with the two day rally style event this summer and I would like to see a Rum organised National rally some time in the future.
-
I think the R.C.News, the Forum and the Open days ARE effectively "The Club"!
Nowadays whatever you do or try to do someone on the net will grumble and criticise, often with a very limited idea of what the purpose of it all is, but neither Jean nor any of us should worry too much about that, and just appreciate what it means to us, and any new member who cares to join in with a broadly similar outlook.
-
Well Bob & Marcus ,
thats stirred up a can of worms . Thank you Bob for your timely comments about 50 & 60's FUN aspect of Microcars .
As a Newby to this Forum , its so refreshing to have kind & rapid responses.
Look forward to meeting you , hopefully at the next Rumcars meet, if permitted . My late Dad ALWAYS spent time on the phone to Trojan /Heinkel owners as he felt that knowledge should be shared with those interested enough to listen &
learn .
-
I would like to explain how the Register became involved with Invalid Carriages. In the early nineties I was approached by the late Michael Lawrence who compiled the original booklet on invalid carriages because one of his invalid associates were seeking permission from DVLA to keep the original registration number. In those days there was no organisation with any records about invalid carriages and DVLA asked if I could assist them being there nearest group of vehicles to the invalid carriages (three wheels and small engines). With Michael's help I agreed to take them on, and between us we were able to help several owners retain their original number plates. Sadly, when Michael died there was no one else for me to turn to. His wife very kindly gave me a lot of her husbands informative records which helped me to fathom out information on vehicles which I agree were hardly microcars. And struggle I did until along came first Simon Richter and then Stuart and I was relieved to hand this section of the Register to them. They were both in their late teens at the time. Sadly Simon who was severely disabled himself died very soon after but Stuart surpassed all my expectations and he is now the acknowledged expert. I believe now is the time to hand over everything I have into his care and that he should apply to the DVLA to join the V765 scheme in his own right. Not that I want to disassociate myself from Stuart and his Register because his interest in small weird vehicles goes much deeper than just invalid carriages. His enthusiasm is boundless and energy in the pursuit of information limitless. Long may he be involved with RUMCARS and may many younger people be inspired by him to join us and carry on what was started over twenty five years ago. Jean
-
I believe now is the time to hand over everything I have into his care
:o Eh? What? The cars, the Farm & everything?!!! As an early Christmas present? Oh well, if you really insist, I hereby accept everything with very greatful thanks..... ;D :-* :D How did you know that's just what I always wanted? ;)
-
Right then Stuart, I suspect that before Jean hands over everything to you she will probably insist that you don't have a large auction and flog off all the collection to some Johny foreigner for a large pile of Euros ;). You might be allowed to give a away the odd car to a good cause. Bob Purton might be interested in the Tourette and I would be willing to take on the P50 if you are pushed for space ::). Let me know when Jean signs it all over to you. Looks like 2009 will be the year of ICR, what ever next ?, world domination ? :o
-
Looks like 2009 will be the year of ICR, what ever next ?, world domination ? :o
Funny you should say that Trident, I wasn't going to start mentioning this till about this time next year, but that's just what the ICR has in mind for August 2010 at the World Micro Meet in Chicago in conjunction with Ian Hellings. Watch this space becuse you ain't seen the half of it yet..... ;)
-
Yes, I'll take it off your hand Stuart, I suspect the stables will be housing mechanical elephants instead of horses!
-
Well, the original topic of this thread was "Is the register too secretive?". The feedback clearly indicates that it is bang on right!
-
Well, I do rather tend to think a lot of general folk don't really understand the sheer scope or scale of some Registers. Using the ICR & RUM as examples, we both cover entire universes instead of just one particular make or even model of whatever. We are not mindreaders as to what Mr X wants to know about whatever at whatever specific time. He has to come up & ASK us for the specific detail so we KNOW what specific detail he wants. Then of course we will move moutains to find that specific detail for him. What's the problem? I've always found Jean to be the very model of openess....
-
Thanks for your vote of confidence Stuart. Whilst I like to help as many folk as I can I will not quote owners names and addresses unlless I have been given prior permisssion by said owner. All personal information is covered by the data protection act and should not be treated lightly.
I when I talked of handing over the section of the Register devoted to Invalid Carriages, I meant just that. The two carriages in the Hammond Collection are NOT part of the deal. First I would like to see you make contact with the DVLA to become acceptepd as part of the V765 scheme so that you can validate any invalid carriages in your own right. Get that hurdle over and you can have all the informnation, leaflets, articles, magazines and any other paper work that I can find to add to your not inconsiderable archive. Then you can be a truly independent Register, because after all you know more about IC's thanI ever will. Lets make this our aim for 2009.
-
Dear Jean
As a person who has a vehicle registered with Rumcars, the one thing that I wish was available is a listing of all the vehicles on the register which was accessible to members. Now I know that the Data protection act may come in here, but I am just talking about the Rumcar registration number, the make and model, year and perhaps country of residence. No owners names, no registration plate numbers, colours or anything like that.
Why would I like this list? Well I could then see how many other vehicles of the same type as my own, or one I wish to buy, are already registered, and if I wanted more details I could then come to you/ the new registra and be specific about the data that I wished to obtain.
Also as a regular contributer to Rumcar it would also allow me to obtain first hand experience from the owners if I were to be writing about a particular vehicle.
Now I realise that we may not want every Tom Dick and Harry having access to the register, but in the same way as forum members have to be vetted before they can spout forth, perhaps the same process could be used for the register.
Chris Thomas
-
Chris has a point, I think a lot of people including myself would like to see a published form of the register but with no ownership details, the MOC has such a list for schmitts showing how many of each type survive and also colours etc. Perhaps this added transparency would satisfy those who feel its too secretive.
-
the MOC has such a list for schmitts showing how many of each type survive and also colours etc.
They do? :o I'm in the MOC & that's the first I've heard of such a published list! And as most folk who knows me know, that's usually the second such item on my shopping list from any club after first clearing 'em out of all avalible magazine back issues...... ;D
-
Stuart, All the flattery about your prowess as a researcher is going to your head! Its on line for all and sundry to view. WWW.messerschmit.co.uk, home, page 5, click register, click add my car to the register, click statistics so far, select, Model, colour, year of registration, condition. I looked just now and the system was down [maybe for updating] but that's where it all is. I can see why you didn't come across it before, you probably got no further than the 'register my car' button on account of not being an owner. I wonder if its designed that way, so that its viewable to other owners only? Wouldn't it be great to have this facility on the rumcars website.
-
Its on line for all and sundry to view. WWW.messerschmit.co.uk,
It doesn't show with this title, you've left off a 't' and added a , (comma) at the end.
-
Its on line for all and sundry to view.
Oh well, no wonder I couldn't find it! Must admit though, I regard "published" as meaning paper & ink sort of things so that's what I was looking fot. Personally I can't say I hold much faith in online stuff as it can be lost & vanish in the mispress of a button or collapse of a website, whereas at least with paper it'll sit quite happy on the shelf for years to come.
Over & out til Boxing Day. Merry Chistmas ;D
-
Rob, This is my only way of checking you are awake! I know what you are like with the Pimms, especially this time of the year!
Stuart, Well, print it off and put it up on your shelf then! Get used to it old fruit as the Kabin news will soon be availible on line only, its just a matter of time. It will be a sad day, like you I prefer paper and ink.
-
I have just re-read my last posting on this, and think my meaning may not be clear, I do NOT mean that the criticism Jean what discussing is right! I mean the I feel THE REGISTER is about right!