RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Scootacar_mk1 on March 04, 2009, 10:51:45 PM
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http://www.aquateenshungerforce.com/frankenschmitt/
discovered this site today! think I would have put it back to original personally!
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Brilliant! ;D I wondered what had happoned to Frankenschmitt! I'll be as contraversial now as when it first turned up & say I'm glad it's being kept as an unholy creation of Messerschmitt & DKW. Yes, it may look hideous & yes it might upset some purists, but that is precisly the reason to my mind why it SHOULD remain as it is. The world is full of bog-standard Messerschmitt's whereas Frankenschmitt is unique! Not only does it have all the history of the two cars which went into it, but it also has the history of what it has became.
Frankenschmitt deserves to be in a museum in my opnion.
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Frankenschmitt deserves to be in a museum in my opnion.
yes, the Bodge Museum!
I do agree that it is nice that he actually "restored" the unholy union to whatever it probably looked like after someone thought it was a "good idea" to mate the 2 cars.
and he is having fun with it and that's the whole point.
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Amazingly enough, I find myself agreeing with Stuart; there are plenty of Shmitts in all sorts of conditions, but this horrible, ugly and ridiculous contraption is unique, and bursting full of mongrel DNA and personality.
Oh but DEFINATELY not a bodge, or only fit for the Museum of BODGE !!
No, because a bodger is a craftsman/craftswoman who makes wooden chairs, and it is GROSSLY unfair to tarnish skilled chair makers with this BOTCHED -UP monstrosity. It is a botch, and a horrible one at that. It has little right to exist, but it does, and the world would be a sadder place if things like this did not pollute our vision occasionally. I love it, let the monster live !
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Like scootacar Mk1 I would have put it back to a proper car, this thing will probably never see tarmac [this is becoming less and less important as the Rumcar ranks swell with every more "enthusiasts" who have no intention of driving a microcar on the roads, some not even intending to own one!], preserving it only encourages more lunacy. Now, where did I put my angle grinder? :D :D
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Had a feeling you'd swing to the other side of the argument Bob! ;) Still, look on the bright side, at least Frankenschmitt wasn't built on an Inter. :o This subject reminds me of when the Likeness Monster turned up last year & I've just dug up the coments I made on that, which I think also apply to Frankenschmitt....
"...Too many times people either dismiss or condemn a car just becuse it wasn't "factury" built or designed. But then neither were half of the "real" micros we all rave about. Suerly the very fact that ANY vehicle exists in any shape or form means that that vehicle has some sort of reason & history behind it, no matter if it was built by a vast company or Fred Jenkins down the shed. By some of the comments posted here, it would seem some are happy to just throw anything they personally can't be bothered about in the crusher & to heck with the details without even attempting to check them out. For all we know, this could have been (for hypothetical example) one of Fritz Fend's back garden project cars from 1979. Or whatever. How do we know? Has anyone checked? But then why should the vehicle be any less interesting even if it wasn't? A lot of work looks to have gone into this thing. Suerly for that reason alone it should at least be given half a chance to try & survive......"
(Founder member of SPHV; Society for the Preservation of Hideous Vehicles)
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If monstrosities did not exist, we would have nothing to take the p*** out of ! If there were only 25 KRs on the road, then I would be DEMANDING its return to originality
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Hi guys.
My name is Daniel Gibson, and I am the proud owner of Frankenschmitt. I just wanted to let you all know that I am enjoying this thread very much. I think I agree with all of you! :^)
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Now put that in your pipe and smoke it you lot!!
FYI - I intend to mate my P50 with a Unimog!
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I've just looked through the site and he's doing the correct thing....the cars had allready had the 'damage' done to them and the present owner can't be blamed for the original project ( is there a lot of cheap moonshine in the US?) and it would be nice to see it completed as intended..
Its obviously interesting us all or we wouldn't all be watching this thread.
I'm sure road registration will be something of a trial......
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Welcome aboard Daniel. Most of us are in UK but a fair number in Europe America and further afield. I got your email, and glad you are looking in! We are all interested in the unusual when it comes to cars; although there are mixed feelings here as you can see, yours is certainly unusual !
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Hi Daniel, welcome to Rumcars. At the end of the day its yours and you are free to do what ever you like with it, my emphasis is to get microcars back on the road whatever the mods they have had inflicted on them. I just cant get my head around the idea that whatever someone does to a vehicle be it a change of colour, light switch or chopping it in half must be preserved. THis crowd on the forum carry on alarmingly if someone sells a numberplate from an old microcar, its a mortal sin but chop two cars in half and weld them together and its somehow commendable!
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Usually I'm a stickler for keeping cars in their original form, however to be honest there wasn't much of the genuine Schmitt left and what remains, probably would have gone in the bin years ago if were not for someone creating this thing.
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When I first saw this on Ebay I thought it was hideous, and why would someone do this . :'( But the fact is that it was done, and so deal with it. Looking at the remarkable and painstaking effort Daniel is doing to restore it is to be commended and all of the Frankenschmidtt's endearing qualities are emminating forth. ;D Keep up the good work. 8) Did it come with a title, Daniel? Keep up your great endeavour, Ian.
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"so deal with it"? I would love to! Dismantle it and sell the parts to help restore proper cars.
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sell the parts to help restore proper cars.
If you looked at Daniels blog of the restoration you could see how bad the body of the Messerschmitt part was. It didn't have much left to sell on! ::)
Bye the way, any progress on your latest venture. Isn't that being made from different cars parts? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The value of Frankenschmitt's existance is worth more than the sum of its parts. Think about it. How many standard Messerschmitts or DKW's could keep a forum abuzz in the way this unholy creation is doing with perfect ease right here right now.... 8)
Will Frankenschmitt be at the World Micro Meet next August Daniel? I wanna see it in person!
By the way folks, on similar subject, whatever happoned to the Likeness Monster? ???
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By the way folks, on similar subject, whatever happoned to the Likeness Monster? ???
The Messerschmitt "prototype" made from US Export Isetta parts only went to $605 on eBay.
I suspect it is still in the garage where it has sat since it's birth.
I never got any contact info from the owners. Perhaps they have decided to keep it rather than buy gold.
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I have been trying to view the car all day but I cant get the link to work, I get the dialogue but no pics, if as Stuart says there are no schmitt bits worth having I shall eat my usual portion of humble pie, I'm getting quite a taste for it! With regard to Robs goad, does anybody want a badly rusted Nobel chassis? No? No one? Who wants a messerschmitt engine cover? Hundreds of restorers the world over. My argument falls flat of course if there is nothing left of it! How can I get the pictures up?
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Hi Bob,
This is the link to the first set of pictures when Daniel got it home.
http://www.aquateenshungerforce.com/frankenschmitt/overall_view.htm
You should be able to see the rest by clcking on a link at the bottom of each page.
Rob.
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I have been trying to view the car all day but I cant get the link to work, I get the dialogue but no pics,
The pics are rather large and can take quite a while to load for each page, that is probably why you can't get them.
I had a few just "give up" on me waiting for them to load.
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Sorry about the picture sizes. At first I was going for detail ,and then I realized how slowly they load. The more recent entries should be smaller.
I did indeed give brief consideration to restoring it back to KR200 glory. The turquoise KR on the top of the first page is one I did a couple of years ago. (A rusty relic I bought from Bruce Weiner). I sold it in a moment of weakness. So, I basically know what these cars are about. I believe that this one was beyond reasonable restoration. I would literally have to have found everything. It simply was not worth it. Besides, the more I looked at it, the more impressed I was with the work the fellow put into building it. To wit:
The engine and front end are from a DKW 3=6. Since the radiator is behind the engine on a 3=6, he had to re-engineer the radiator to mount into the front of the car. That meant hooking up an electric fan (now seized). Also, the 3=6 works on the thermo-syphon principle, and I guess that would not do, so this car has a hand-built water manifold, and the generator and water pump off of a 49 Nash. Water pump, generator and starter have all been rebuilt.
Brake master cylinder is mid-fifties jeep, gas tank is hand made (I think) and electric bits are whatever was available.
And for the naysayers who think it will never hit the tarmac, I think you will be surprised. I am putting the engine together now, and may get it in this weekend. I hope to start it next weekend.
I think it will be an amazing ride. Imagine a KR200 with 60 horsepower and big wheels. Oh, and brakes designed to stop a 3000 pound car.
Title and registration should not prove to be a problem. You do not need much to put a 50 year old motorcycle on the road in Texas. And if I get historic plates, no yearly inspection.
Please let me know if you all have any questions....this is fun!
Dan
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Thanks Rob but I'm still getting"This link appears to be broken" then google offers the text only version. I give up.
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(http://www.aquateenshungerforce.com/frankenschmitt%20004.jpg)
hope this works.
I think it would have been fairly easy to restore back to a schmitt...but also like the work you have done :)
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And now for a further missive from Frankenschmitt's biggest fan..... ;D
Dan mentioned on his blog that he wondered just when Frankenschmitt was likely to have been built. I would say not at all recently, possibly 1970s at the latest. Why? Well, take the source of some of the parts used in the construction; 1960s DKW, 1949 Nash, mid '50s Jeep. None of these vehicles are particularly common in this day & age but would have been fairly easy to find 30 years ago.
Plus, if it had been built recently, would not the power source be far more likely to be something like Nissan Micra or whatever common FWD car there is in America at the moment. Also, look at the rust advancement. if it had been knocked up in the past few years would anyone have used such a rotten shell in relation to the oviusly high standard of workmanship? Clearly whoever built this thing was not messing around and knew fully what they were doing so would not have been wasting time with any old rubbish. This surly adds further weight to the built-a-fair-old-while-ago line of thought, becuse by all acounts the DKW was a well regarded "users" car way back when.
If only we could find that "who" to ask.....
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I just realized that you can see part of my TR6 in that photo that was posted. Obligatory British content! ;^)
Dan
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Dan,
I wonder if the original builder was trying to copy the long nose of the Messerscmitt plane? I like the 'mouth', it reminds me a a shark!!
When you guys over in US say the title of a vehicle. What does this mean, the registration documents?
Rob. ;D
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A "Title" is a legal document issued by the relevant State authorities ( Usually the state's DMV - Department of Motor Vehicles) which shows some identifying characteristics of the vehicle, usually VIN, year and make of the vehicle with the name and address of the owner, together with any registered lien holders (Finance company, bank) that may have an interest it the vehicle. It is an ownership document, just like a Property Deed or Copy of Extract for real property. All States issue vehicle Titles at least for newer vehicles, but some do not for older ones. In Illinois, all vehicles have a title. When purchasing a vehicle, this title is signed and addressed by the purchaser and the state will issue a new title in the name of this new owner, for a one time fee of course as long as the secured interest is paid off or added on as well. This is not (NOT) a registration document as the V5 (logbook). It only shows ownership. You also have to register (license) the vehicle in your domicile state and of course another fee (annual), and with this registration comes the number plate. The plates do not stay with the car. They belong to the owner of the registration, the license or whatever the individual states call it, and can be transferred between vehicles as long as they are the same class and same owner. It used to be that plates were issued each year, and that these plates would typically be a different number. Currently most states issue a plate now for multiple years and each year when you pay the fee you receive a dated decal to put on the plate to show that the plate is currently licensed and valid. You also obtain with this yearly act, an index sized card with the number, vehicle, VIN, etc., to carry in the glove box. In the event that the vehicle does not have a VIN, as in older cars, then this is substituted with some other number usually the chassis number or engine number. I hope that this clears it up, or bogs you down even further. The fees are not generally that great, In Illinois the title for a vehicle is $65.00 but the annual registration fee depends on the class of the vehicle. Typically a modern car is $78 per year, however special class such as "Antique Vehicle" (over 20 years old I think) the plates are issued for upto five years with no annual renewal needed for only $30.00 in total. Supposedly there are limitations on the use of the antique???, but not strictly enforced. This is especially true in a small town such as mine where everyone knows each other, yet even when away from home the police are more interested in the novelty, rather than the legality. Sorry for the run-on. Ian.
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Dan,
I wonder if the original builder was trying to copy the long nose of the Messerscmitt plane? I like the 'mouth', it reminds me a a shark!!
When you guys over in US say the title of a vehicle. What does this mean, the registration documents?
Rob. ;D
The mouth is very cool. Based on how it is put together, I think the builder was trying for a three wheeled Formula 1 look from the sixties. I agree that it it looks like it was put together 40 years ago, and then left to rot. I am not yet convinced that it was ever driven much, if at all. Just based on the incomplete parts (wiring mainly), I think it was gotten to a running status, driven around the family farm for a while and then parked. I do not think the lights were ever hooked up.
Dan
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Thanks Ian,
I understand it now ...... I think!
Back in 1976 when I had my collection I was very well known to the local cops. I even had morning tea with them in their station when delivering mail. They used to come to my house as well just to talk cars and look over the micros. Never had any trouble from them. One Christmas as one of them left rather fast in his Ford Granada the whole road was awakened by HO, HO, HO, MERRY CHRISTMAS from the cars loud speakers. He was grinning like the Cheshire cat.
Rob.
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Dan, I visit Dallas sometimes for work, and some of our parts are made in Fort Worth, so next time I get to US I hope to see and ride in your wonderfully ridiculous car
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Sounds like a plan! I put the engine back in yesterday, so progress is still being made.
So the next World Micro Car Meet is in 2010?
Dan
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Dan, look here for a schedule of things you might be interested in:
http://microcar.org/meets.html
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Here's a name for the car.
FRANKENSCHMITT DNA = Dr Noose's Abnormality. ;D
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Hey all! It started tonight! It did not run great, or for long, but start it did. Sweet! Based on the few seconds of run-time, the engine sounded solid. Now I just have to figure out the vagaries of the 3 coil DKW ignition system.
Dan
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Great news...IT"S ALIIIIIVE !
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Congratulations. The first sound of an engine coming to life after so many years is music, and I bet you had a great big smile on your face. :)
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Congratulations! I'm getting an image in my head of a laboratory, lightning conductors, huge induction coils, six foot wide wimshurst machine discs, sparking electrodes and all things necessary to jumpstart the monster!
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Throw the switch, Igor
(I once knew a band called Igor's Night Off...what a great band name!)
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Hey all. Since I cannot put the exhaust back on until it is painted, I decided to paint it this weekend. I posted up pictures of it in progress. I can't wait to drive this thing. I also go the clutch hooked up and the carbie rebuilt. Wiring is the biggest thing still keeping it off the road. I had better get busy..car show season is here!
Later!
Dan
www.frankenschmitt.com
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Hey, I finally got to see Dans pictures by using a different computer. Great progress! I was wrong when I said it would never see tarmac! I'm amazed at the trouble the builder went to to put this together although I still wonder why! I was not wrong about it easily being able to be put back to a schmitt though. Rob and Stuart are mistaken about it being too far gone and saying there was not much left of the original car, a large proportion of it was there and the rust situation was the same as a lot of schmitts that are now restored including my own, all the rotted panels are available new. Still Dans has made his decision and is doing a sterling job! As the USA is the home of the custom car and hot-rods, this is certainly in the right place. Throw the switch Igor and let the carnage commence!!
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Hi Dan,
She's coming along fine. Back in the 1970s a friend of mine painted his Triumph Spitfire III with a roller. Not a bad finish too.
What is the paint you used, Coach Enamel or ordinary house paint? Keep up the good work. ;D
Rob.
PS. I'm toying with the idea of fitting a tail and rotor to a Peel P50. A little 'Horrocopter' ::)
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Hi Dan,
She's coming along fine. Back in the 1970s a friend of mine painted his Triumph Spitfire III with a roller. Not a bad finish too.
What is the paint you used, Coach Enamel or ordinary house paint? Keep up the good work. ;D
Rob.
PS. I'm toying with the idea of fitting a tail and rotor to a Peel P50. A little 'Horrocopter' ::)
Don't takre my one for your projekt mate! :o :o :o
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Hi Dan,
She's coming along fine. Back in the 1970s a friend of mine painted his Triumph Spitfire III with a roller. Not a bad finish too.
What is the paint you used, Coach Enamel or ordinary house paint? Keep up the good work. ;D
Rob.
PS. I'm toying with the idea of fitting a tail and rotor to a Peel P50. A little 'Horrocopter' ::)
I thought about this for a while today... a P50 does kinda look like a 'copter. I would want to go for a ride. I also thought it might look cool to put a rotor on top of a Trident. Maybe with a suction cup.
Dan
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I am using Rust-oleum Oil based enamel. Thin it out like car paint, and it goes on smooth. I did my daughter's Pacer like this a year ago, and after you color-sand it, it looks really nice. Plus, the paint seems to hold up very well. Best part? The whole paint job costs about $70. And it does not take any longer than spraying at home. Much less mess as well!
Dan
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I am using Rust-oleum Oil based enamel.
I have found there is a distributor for Rust-oleum in UK. Thanks.
There are many colours I see and it's better priced than most finishes.
Rob.
Don't takre my one for your projekt mate! :o :o :o
I wouldn't take your Peels Ferdi, they are in too good a condition.
I have a picture somewhere of one of my old Peels with a key on top! ;D Oh I do love a wind-up!
Rob.
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Hi Rob,
can you please post this photo of the "wind-up Peel"
Can't wait to see it. So please don't hesitate :)
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Hi Ferdi,
Took a while to find the picture. Here is a copy of a copy of a copy that Tony Marshall took in 1976 when visiting. This is EME 583B before restoration and shown on BBC Top Gear and Youtube.
Rob.
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z28/robbie-dee-photos/PEELS005.jpg) (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z28/robbie-dee-photos/PEELS006.jpg) (http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z28/robbie-dee-photos/EBAY105.jpg)
Have put on smaller pictures.
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Thanks a lot ,fantastic photos, but i love it powered by the DKW engine ;) ;)
(http://www.fmrtiger.de/Pictures/Gallery/52429277_4c5480cb5c.jpg)
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Hey guys. Just a quick update. The brakes are all hooked, just needing bleeding (it rhymes!). Engine starts right up, but I cannot adjust the carb yet, as I do not have the radiator hooked up, so I cannot run it for long. The PO cobbled together a real Rube Goldberg (Heath Robinson) lower radiator hose consisting of 4 rubber hose sections and three metal pipes. I think I have it figured out, but I ran out of hose clamps! With a little luck, I might even take it up and down the driveway this weekend!
Dan
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Good news, good Doctor!
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Hey gang. I just updated the web site. I was going to post a picture of it here, but no luck. Check it out here:
http://www.aquateenshungerforce.com/frankenschmitt/05042009%20-%20Slowly%20But%20Surely.html
What do you think?
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It's looking smart, not too smart I hope, I like some of the bastard quality, but I think you're doing a good job. Very happy to see such a vehicle being preserved and readied for use.
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Hey Gang,
Thought I would post this here first. I still have to update the web page. I still need to finish it out, but with the brakes and the clutch working, it was time for a test driive! Feels a whole lot different than a stock 'schmitt! Zoom! The drive was short as I had a hard time keeping it running (a coil wire fell off) and it was leaking water (fixed), but it ran pretty good!
You can see a picture here...
http://www.aquateenshungerforce.com/frankenschmitt/first%20drive.jpg
Later!
Dan
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Looks good Dan. How about a moving shot in lieu of a still? Nice job. Ian.
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Great stuff, looking forward to seeing your videos on you tube, yes that's an order!
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Thanks a lot ,fantastic photos, but i love it powered by the DKW engine ;) ;)
(http://www.fmrtiger.de/Pictures/Gallery/52429277_4c5480cb5c.jpg)
That plate is a bit similar to JMG678B..! Two Strokes car?!
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....seems they are twins P50. The difference is JMG678B is yellow. ;)
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Great stuff, looking forward to seeing your videos on you tube, yes that's an order!
Well, it took a while, but I put up a video. Not much of one, but it does show it in action. If there is something in particular you would like to see, please let me know, and I can post another one. Not yet ready for a top speed run!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ie6vW8ro7s
I did have it for sale, but I have had a change of heart. I will proceed to complete it!
Thanks
Dan
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Fantastic! Glad to hear you have decided to persevere, and it looks so much better (!) when moving. I notice you have a Texas plate on the back, whereabouts? I have a business in "Plain Ol' Plano" so spend a bit of time over there.
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How to make a Messerschmitt look like a Longnose Focke Wolf 190. Utterly brilliant to see it going.
I just love this car, it is an anti-microcar. I had my doubts it would be strong enough in body to be used but clearly I am wrong. I have to say I would not alter it back to original but continue development so as to get it finished. Get that exhaust tuned so it wails and go and frighten the world with eccentricity before they totally ban it. It hits the Biggles gene and if you have not one I feel sorry for you as your missing out.
Now where is that Alfasud engine, that would go nicely in the back of the Larmar, to make the Alarmar.
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An affront to all that's sacred! :D
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An affront to all that's sacred! :D
And all the more reason why it should exist says I ;) Good to see it moving & even better to hear you're keeing it, good Doctor. All hail Frankenschmitt, the king of the gentically modded 'schmitts.... Who needs a CX500 lump up the rump when a DKW hits the spot! ;D
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Funnily enough I too thought of Biggles! It IS an affront to all that is sacred, and if there were fewer than 100 surviving KRs I would prefer to see it made puckha again, but there are enough KRs in good nick to allow this absurdly gorgeous beast to live on.
Not too sure aboutan Alfasud engine in a Lamar.
An engine from a big sporting Allard would be much better, and it would be called the Alarmed!
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Dear Marcus
Somebody in Sussex did once think of building a special, constructed from the remains of a Gordon and a Lamar and was going to call it a LAMARGODON
He was put off by his friend who wanted to use the same body on a Mini Marcos chassis and wanted to call it a Mark Lamar. But he did not think it was a good name or very funny.
Chris Thomas
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Howdy All!
Tonight the Frankenschmitt made its first real road trip. Four miles each way! I took it to a local cruise night. Needless to say, it was a big hit. People flocked to it all night.
The most impressive thing was how well it ran. That DKW engine has plenty of power on tap, and it REVS! I got it up to 50 mph no problem, and it had a bunch left on tap. Handled much better than I expected. Typical three wheeler understeer. All in all, a very successful outing.
Dan
P.S. look up Frankenschmitt on youtube...I have posted a couple of videos.
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And you nearly gave up on it, I knew it would get huge attention! Brill.
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Looks great! :) You did a good job, Ian.