RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Dan Rodd on January 20, 2010, 07:00:39 PM
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Thought i might pose this question.
Presumably there was little interest in them in the early-mid 60s when they were new,hence why not many were made.But what was the point at which they became something to actually seek out and buy?im not talking about their current glorified status in microcar circles these days,but back in the early 70s perhaps where,without the internet and micro clubs that there are now,few could have even heard of them?
Though it would be interesting to find out,also how they were found facinates me.I do wish that one day one will surface that hasnt been restored to over the top condition like a little trinket and wears its original finish,much more interesting! ;D
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Well, most of the non-mainstream micros first really started being appriciated in the UK in direct connection with the rise of the Burford Rallies & The Surrey Microcar Collection duo of Tony Marshall & Malcolm Thomas from 1975 onwards. As an aside, I concider 21st September 1975, to be the date of the founding of the entier UK microcar world, on the occasion of the Multi-make three-wheeler rally. Bob Dobie was down there in Sussex trying to find Peels at the exact same time, and so I belive was Gordon Fitzgerald up in Cumbria. Both in splendid isolation of each other alas. Bob sort of pettered outdue to not realising the fledling micro world was hatching right at that time, but Gordon was already involved with the Messerschmitt Owners Club I belive, and so did know of the hatching world. Thus Gordon became "Mr Peel" through the 1970s, & rescused at least a dozen in his time.
Bob sold his Peels to Malciom Goldsworthy in 1976, presumibly leading Goldsworthy to dig into Peels. MG visited the Isle of Man, rescused the prototype (1979?) also did a lot of research as Gordon Fitzgerald drifted from Peels to Heinkel-Trojans into the 1980s. Then enter Andy Carter in 1981 in connection with one particular Trident & Alan Evans's P50. and of course from the 1990s onwards, the Peel story is very much Andy Carter.
Let's not forget that Edwin Hammond astounded the Micro World in 1980 by forking out a totally unheard of £300 for a broken Trident :o The man was concidered to have truely taken leave of his senses paying that sort of money for a thing like that. Indeed, Jean very nearly divorced him over it, as I'm sure she'll take up the story..... ;)
abridged text from "A complete history of the microcar world" by Stuart Cyphus
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March 6 1997?
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March 6 1997?
Funnily enough Jim, I was just popping back to add that I personally concider 6th March 1997 to be the date when Peels became "desirable" as in the way Daniel asked.
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Weiner auction was when the microcar enthusiast took note. Top Gear was when the world learnt what a Peel was and that's when they went ballistic.
Well I'm punting the MK1 Scoot will follow in a Peels footsteps. It's that shape and they're as rare (although 800 were made they were usable and thus most died in action...)
This is a forum so I welcome anyones views..! However all micros are pretty PC and right on as they promote sensible less selfish transport. The Peel was designed to save you walking to the shops or station which is utterly outrageous now. Peels are pre processed food and laziness/freedom rights.
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i think thats a good way of looking at it,most micros were designed so that people had a cheaper more economical option over big cars,the Peel was,by virtue of its size and limited useability,designed to replace the shoe! ;D
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Hi Perry. There you go again, talking up the value of a vehicle you just so happen to have invested in! :D :D I do tend to agree though, they are whacky and a darn site more usable than a Peel, unless you use them as bookends as I do. The other cars I think are still undervalued are the early Bonds. Still, we should be more focused on restoring and driving micros rather than viewing them as an investments.
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I wish more people took your attitude Bob of actually DRIVING them,i might be more tempted to go to a micro rally in the future,especially as the national is only 10 miles away from me this year.Last time i went a few years ago i got bored with all the over the top restos that had been trailered in or stuck on the back of a camper van 10 times the size of the micro.
I know that some arent sensible to use on the road but in my opinion theres no reason why a well set up Bond,schmitt or Heinkel cant be used on the road,hell,i still see Austin Sevens being used around here occasionally!
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Dan, I think most schmitts, Hienkels and Bonds are driven on the roads, its just that it can be hard work driving them to rallies if you live a couple of hundred miles away hence the trailers. A hundred miles is my limit as I still have a slight vertigo problem in the schmitt[and it doesnt even fly!] Restored, over restored? Thats always good for a debate, personally I like them shiny but original spec. You should come to some rallies and come out on the road runs, thats the best part!
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Well i would hope to see more driven to this years national,being as it is in the middle of the country,therefore hopefully giving a fair chance for more people to attend.
I prefer unrestored but mechanically uptogether myself,but do like to see something rare thats been restored to original spec,as it takes a lot more effort than say a mini or mgb where every part is available new off the shelf.
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Hi Perry. There you go again, talking up the value of a vehicle you just so happen to have invested in! :D :D I do tend to agree though, they are whacky and a darn site more usable than a Peel, unless you use them as bookends as I do. The other cars I think are still undervalued are the early Bonds. Still, we should be more focused on restoring and driving micros rather than viewing them as an investments.
I wouldnt be too fussed Bob. You own the best Inter on the planet. It looks fantastic and is as quirky as a Peel etc..
it's right up there,superb and who wouldn't want one?!.
I use both my Scoot and KR all the time. They're not static.
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I know you use your Perry, in fact I was going to ask you if you wanted to drive down with me to the MOC rally in the summer? I know you like crashing into the back of me when I slow down for speed bumps! :D :D
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Dan. "as it takes a lot more effort than say a mini or mgb where every part is available new off the shelf."
Tell me about it! I always seem to choose bikes and cars that have zero parts availability! Still, I'm rebuilding an NSU Quickly engine for Steve Baylis at the moment with all parts availible, Deep JOY!!
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I know you use your Perry, in fact I was going to ask you if you wanted to drive down with me to the MOC rally in the summer? I know you like crashing into the back of me when I slow down for speed bumps! :D :D
I'm driving down with my pal Ollie who you've met so indeed more the merrier. Two yellow KR's and a red. Any more offers from London?!
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Ah, I didnt know Ollie had finished his, thats good news. I will team up with the Loughton louts then! :D
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I think the Scootacar remains a desireable micro amongst enthusiasts and microcar collectors.
I don't see it getting the kind of attention that the Peel does until it is bought and sold in a "proper" setting so as to show "others" that it is "acceptable" to buy them and collect them.
That is what happened at the Christie's auction.
That auction made collecting microcars and bubblecars "acceptable" to an entirely new group of people.
The other thing I have found the Peel has going for it (besides being on Top Gear) is the "Guiness World Record" thing for being smallest production car.
People like "world records" for some reason and whenever I have been involved with a P50 (from the Lane Museum) in a show, that point is what people react to the most.
There it is, right in front of them..."The World's Smallest Car". And they are looking at it! ta da.
The Montreal Auto Show wanted a display of micros and insisted there be a P50 in the mix.
They did not care what else what there as long as a P50 was present.
Until the Scootacar can come up with a trick like that, I don't think it can match the Peel.
Driveability is not really an issue. Eventually the people who pay lots of money are collectors and they do not generally drive their cars.
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Driveability is not really an issue. Eventually the people who pay lots of money are collectors and they do not generally drive their cars.
At last, someone who understands my own view of the microcar world these days and why very little is driven these days. I can never understand all this hoo-haa that every single car ever made MUST be driven at all costs EVERY single moment of every single day. I have no real intrest AT ALL in driving any car. They're all the same in that respect in my opnion. My enjoyment comes from admiering them, researching them AND LOOKING AT THEM. That's my enjoyment of them. What right has anyone else to say I am anly less of an enthusiast than they are about these vehicles for not having any urge to drive them.
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I should take up stamp collecting Stuart! ;)
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I think the Scootacar remains a desireable micro amongst enthusiasts and microcar collectors.
I don't see it getting the kind of attention that the Peel does until it is bought and sold in a "proper" setting so as to show "others" that it is "acceptable" to buy them and collect them.
That is what happened at the Christie's auction.
That auction made collecting microcars and bubblecars "acceptable" to an entirely new group of people.
The other thing I have found the Peel has going for it (besides being on Top Gear) is the "Guiness World Record" thing for being smallest production car.
People like "world records" for some reason and whenever I have been involved with a P50 (from the Lane Museum) in a show, that point is what people react to the most.
There it is, right in front of them..."The World's Smallest Car". And they are looking at it! ta da.
The Montreal Auto Show wanted a display of micros and insisted there be a P50 in the mix.
They did not care what else what there as long as a P50 was present.
Until the Scootacar can come up with a trick like that, I don't think it can match the Peel.
Driveability is not really an issue. Eventually the people who pay lots of money are collectors and they do not generally drive their cars.
I suppose it is a fact of life that some collectors just own the cars. Acceptable if they're pending restoration but a shame if they were road fit when aquired and end up static.
Oddly enough I'm not a huge fan of the P50. The KR,Scootacar and Trident have cracking styling. The P50 is simply a box on wheels. Hideous and utilitarian. But famous and quirky.
But, I don't think it will need an auction etc to demonstrate a Mk1's value. I think the nothing else like it styling and rareity will do enough. I think more Peels have been up for sale that Scoots over the last few years..
Bob, Ollie's car's in build but will be done by April.
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;D
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...trailered in...I know that some arent sensible to use on the road but....
...it takes a lot more effort than say a mini or mgb....
Okay, okay, I'll take the hint. My apologies for trailering the KV behind the MGB. At least the KV has an exceptionally uncomplicated history vis-à-vis its desirability.
Mike Harrell
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i fail to see any reason why anyone would buy a car solely to look at it.Guess what the car was invented for?driving.Even if its just on a rally field i would get more pleasure in sitting in any microcar,mine or not,and being able to experience the sound,smell and surroundings of the car i was in.
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Eep. I should have thrown some smileys into my previous comment. I do greatly enjoy driving my KV around town, but its top speed makes longer distances unapproachable. I assure you it emits all sorts of sounds and smells, often even when parked.
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Out of interest what's the top speed of a KV?
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i fail to see any reason why anyone would buy a car solely to look at it.
and there are places where people will PAY to look at them even though they do not own them!
Can you imagine that? ::)
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i do that all the time,its called Google! ;D
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you pay to use Google?
in other news, I have started a new thread to address the concerns you bring up about why anyone would buy a car just to look at.
http://www.rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=2068.0
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i pay for my internet ;)
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Out of interest what's the top speed of a KV?
My KV Mini 1 has a top speed of around 35 mph on level ground (which is to say about 55 in whatever units are used on its odd little French speedometer) but it is woefully underpowered for ascending grades. I'm lucky to maintain 10-12 mph up modest hills, even without a passenger. Downhill is fun, though. I understand the KV Gad'Jet is a worse performer; don't know about the Mini 2.
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My KV Mini 1 has a top speed of around 35 mph on level ground
By gad Sir, that's a veritable speed-machine you've got there, compared to my Mini-Comtesse! (17mph) :o How can you cope with that sort of velocity! For after all, did not those learned Victorian Doctors tell us when the railways first came that humans would all die of sufforcation at any speed above a brisk cantering gait! I fear for your wellbeing good sire unless I immediatly throw a chock under your wheel to impede your unruly progress when I see you and that there KV in Chicago in August.... ;)
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I fear for your wellbeing good sire unless I immediatly throw a chock under your wheel to impede your unruly progress when I see you and that there KV in Chicago in August.... ;)
You'll be driving the Comtesse to Chicago from Great Britain at 17 mph? I salute your caution, your dedication, and your generous vacation plan and wish you all the best with your route planning. I'm going to cheat and use one of my MGs, ideally the Metro. I intend to offer KV rides to interested parties upon arrival, though. Either that or race for pink slips....