RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Jim Janecek on July 02, 2011, 05:27:06 PM
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this showed up in my News Alerts box:
http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Micro-car-involved-in-A38-crash-02072011.htm (http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Micro-car-involved-in-A38-crash-02072011.htm)
Micro car involved in A38 crash July 2 2011
TWO people in a micro car have been taken to hospital by air ambulance after a road traffic collision on the A38 this afternoon (Saturday).
The incident happened on the A38 southbound at Wychnor between Barton Turn and Alrewas at around 2pm and involved a Messerschmitt micro car and a Citroen Saxo.
The two people travelling in the Messerschmitt were both flown by air ambulance as a precaution with head injuries, one to the University Hospital of North Staffordshire and one to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham.
One lane of the southbound carriageway had to be closed while recovery work took place causing some delays for motorists in the area.
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Somewhat ominus indeed as the A38 is the road to the West Country, bath & Bristol areas & Bath rally is underway at this very moment.... :(
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Hope they will make a speedy recovery.
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That is a clear route from the north east of Birmingham to the Bath area where several driven Microcars are expected. The only thing is I would have thought that they would have been travelling on Friday. Speculating is probably pointless but it it is a worry. Just as I was getting all fruity about driving one again to. That said I have avoided that road as I never liked it in a van or car. Very busy dual carriageway with not great features to keep folk concentrating.
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I passed the A 38 eight days ago, and again 2 days ago going the wrong way, but in a FAR better part of the world, Dorset, Devon and Kernow.
On the way back on the A 30 I saw a Pemberton (Morgan-style 3 wheeler kit car) going the other way, and looking much better in motion than in photos.
Some Saxos are popular with boy racers, could this be of significance?
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What about the poor Messerschmitt - does no one care?
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with the possibiity of head injuries. or any injuries involving the neccessity of an air ambulance i cannot imagine for a moment anyone giving a damn about the car . and its obviously someone we will know.
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cars hardly important,its not rare,it could possibly be rebuilt,and im sure the insurance valuation would be more than enough to pay for another one.
regarding that saxos are popular with boy racers,very true,but messerschmitts are often owned by lets say,much older people,so is the same sort of generalisation.for them to have head injuries it sounds like its been hit hard and then rolled,perhaps.
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Absolutely, a car can be repaired or replaced.
Agree about responsibility Daniel, that's why I asked about Saxo drivers' reputation as a question rather than as a statement of blame! It could even have been another driver cutting one of them up, sometimes the one to blame is able to get away unscathed.
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Two up, hot day, fast road, potential rear tyre deflation comes to mind which would mean the Saxo is an innocent contributor to calamity. As I say one can speculate. Returned from Bath. No known missing Schmitters but the Germans are over on the holiday week before reaching the Solway coast for next weeks rally. Seems unlikely these chaps would be two up though. Has anyone contacted Grant as he is mad enough to come down to Bath, back to Maryport and on home but I think he will be working? Andy Carter? Colin Burton?
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Grant is working abroad at the mo, but back for the rally. Hope those involved are ok.
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BBC state it was 'an open topped Classic Car' with the occupants being a couple in there 50's all of whom were in collision with a second car who's driver was treated for shock. So a little less specific other than the reporters insistence on quoting ages. - Big Al, 32 (well no one said they were accurate!)
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I hope everyone is well and make a full recovery.
There is always a chance that you will have an accident in any vehicle.
It could be your fault, it could be someone elses, it could be mechanical failure etc.
Are the chances of getting involved in an accident greater or reduced if you are in your cherished microcar?
Are the chances of avoiding an accident greater or reduced if you are in your cherished microcar.
You probably won't be travelling at 70mph so the resulting accident won't be as bad - or will it
Is the fact that you are travelling at 40 - 50mph more likely to cause an accident?
If a Saxo travelling at 70 hits a Smart car travelling at 50 would the result be the same as hitting a Messerschmitt travelling at 50?
Probably not.
Therefore we take that risk when travelling in our little cars.
We know that any accident could be much more serious than in a modern car.
If I had an accident in my Micro I would expect it to be much more serious than if I were in a 5 star multi airbag machine.
I am constantly aware of the possible results and drive accordingly. But at what point should we be banned from the road for our own preservation, never I hope.
It's a chance we take, and we are all aware of the consequences.
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Good words there. There is always a risk and we should all be allowed to make our choice. When driving my Trojan I always keep especially alert. Likewise when I cycle around London. People sometimes ask about the "safety" of driving a micro, and I reply with the "safety" of cycling. Ingeneral, the more safe you feel, the more risks you take with your safety and that of others. That is why people in big luxury cars are the ones to be most wary of.
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Statistically motorways are the safest roads. However they specifically ban slow and small vehicles. Clearly there is a reason for that and part of it will be stistically they cause accidents. Unfortunately unlike some countries we do not have a minimum speed limit. It is the responsibility of the driver of small and underpowered vehicles to drive safely and within the law. That makes provision for not blocking the highway without defining the law. That means I tend to avoid 'dangerous' dual carriageways, A34 round here, and look for alternative routes from the motorway network in such machines in preference for a large under utilised A road. See A4 instead of M4 to Bath. I believe the statistics would support smaller cars being safer on these roads, the ones they were designed for after all. Going on back roads feels even safer but statistically they are dangerous because of burks in massive moderns who seem to think they are the only person on the road. Wherever you drive if you get a queue you are meant to pull over and let them passed when convenient. I follow this not so much out of a duty to the law but because a twit who cannot overtake a microcar in a modern is a danger I want as far away from me as possible! THere are plenty of these types about. Its self preservation.
That said a good Schmitt should be fast enough on most A roads to keep up and not create to much of a blockage. Two up on a hot day the potential for issues and a tardy pace would suggest I would not want to be on the A38, which from memory is like the A34 round the accident area and has no run off area, busy and boring being a rat run between motorways. Then I do not know the area well enough to know if there is a viable alternative route. Likewise if in a Trienkel my threshold of busy roads I can use reduces further as while they climb well the flat out crusing speed is lower, and so on by degree of decrepitude and performance. Clearly I consider some cars as pretty unusable, Larmar?, other than during an organised road event or where there is suitable road infrastructure but I think we should retain the right to drive the things safely as other road users also have a duty of care. Sadly proving this from the morgue slab is beyond the line of duty I think. Be interest to here opposing views as I think the topic is very wide open to interpretation.
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No opposing views from me, Alan, I quite agree with what you say. I have driven DUF from London down down to Faversham and back on the A2 / M2, but avoided busy times and kept as far to the left as possible. It was still not all that pleasant! Mike O'Ballance sticks a big orange rotating hazard on the rear of his Treinkel and I reckon that is a pretty wise thing to do.
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Yes, I too try to avoid busy times on the motorways. Last time I drove my schmitt to Bath I left at 4am for a clear run through London and down the M4 all was well untill a volvo driver deliberatly cut me up on an empty road! I guess he thought it was funny or maybe his granny was killed by a 901 during the war. I'm not a violent man but at that moment I could have swung for him! On the autobahn to Story I found the German drivers much more sympathetic and respectfull of our convoy.
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I nearly got run over this morning while cycling back from the shops. Big car turned off the main road into the road I was in, but decided that the white lines down the middle of the road I was in meant nothing, to paraphrase "Chicken Run": "The whole ROAD is my side of the road".
Quite agree about the Germans, Bob, in my experience they and the Dutch are the best drivers in the world. Americans are very good around small towns and countryside, but on the Freeway they turn to homicidal suicidal maniacs. I think the standard of driving in UK has plummeted. try to pull in to a motorway and everyone tries to block you, try to change lane and they speed up to overtake you, and only the uncoolest drivers EVER use indicators.
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decided that the white lines down the middle of the road I was in meant nothing,
I blame those half hearted speed bumps, people always try to avoid them then get in the habit of ignoring white lines on most back streets.
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We have rumble strips to warn the deer. More like earth quake strips when you are in a Messerschmitt. The cars behind can't understand why I have to slow down so much.
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decided that the white lines down the middle of the road I was in meant nothing,
I blame those half hearted speed bumps, people always try to avoid them then get in the habit of ignoring white lines on most back streets.
Yup! People are now so normalised to driving along the middle of the road with wheels either side of the central speed hump (when there are parked cars at the side) that they have forgotten what white lines are there for. It is bad enough when you are in a car, but if you are on a cycle (and cannot keep to the kerb, because of parked vehicles), the hostility which some drivers show is incredible!
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the hostility which some drivers show is incredible!
20 years of cycling in London and I've see it all, even been chased a few times! You should invest in a head-cam Marcus, these days a lot of riders are sending footage to the police to aid the prosecution of bad drivers.
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Indeed I have had a better driving experience in Germany. I put it down to the fact that they still have pride in their products and in the main the slight hold up is countered by the pleasure of seeing a vehicle they have some sort of respect/pride in on the road. Would they be as accommodating for a non German thing like French fridge? However unrestricted Autobahns are pretty scary if you fancy overtaking a truck. Holland, well they do have some complete loonies as well and I have been frightened more than a few times. France is used to pathetically slow machinery but the French do seem to enjoy harrising the British motorist for which I love them. The French have the good sense to stand up for themselves. Antwerp and Brussels rings - better than a video game.
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I was treated almost like royalty when I drove across Germany in an old and tired Austin Maxi. Jaws dropped and a path cleared for me, politely, as if I was an extremely important alien god.
Yup cycling in London is tricky, but nowadays the worst people in the roads are.....
......the PEDESTRIANS! Jeez, are they allergic to pavements? Mums with babies and toddlers are the worst, then all the others who are far too cool to walk on the pavements, and who seem to be more interested in their phones than their safety, and they do get stroppy at any cyclist who they encounter in the road. I get fined if I cycle on the pavement, but around here I have less chance of hitting a pedestrian if I cycle there rather than the road! The world's gone nuts!
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At the risk of being non PC I would suggest a lot of London's population have never seen a footpath before and do not know what it is for other than that its presence means 'gold'!
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this showed up in my News Alerts box:
http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Micro-car-involved-in-A38-crash-02072011.htm (http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Micro-car-involved-in-A38-crash-02072011.htm)
Micro car involved in A38 crash July 2 2011
TWO people in a micro car have been taken to hospital by air ambulance after a road traffic collision on the A38 this afternoon (Saturday).
The incident happened on the A38 southbound at Wychnor between Barton Turn and Alrewas at around 2pm and involved a Messerschmitt micro car and a Citroen Saxo.
The two people travelling in the Messerschmitt were both flown by air ambulance as a precaution with head injuries, one to the University Hospital of North Staffordshire and one to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham.
One lane of the southbound carriageway had to be closed while recovery work took place causing some delays for motorists in the area.
Here's a link to the follow-up. >:(
http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Drink-driver-tried-to-blame-crash-victims-26082011.htm (http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Drink-driver-tried-to-blame-crash-victims-26082011.htm)
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from the follow up:
"For the offence of driving without due care and attention, he was ordered to pay a £100 fine, £15 victim surcharge and £85 court costs."
that's it?
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Dave Dawes, that is a name known to micronauts. They are MEC members and probably MOC members local to the area of the accident. Well at least they are OK even if a bit battered. Was the other guy insured? One assumes so as that is going to be quite a big claim. You can kind of see what happened and I go back to the problem of going slower than average on a fast road when you have drivers not or unable to concentrate. Does not make it right but better to learn from others misfortune and avoid being placed in a dangerous position. Then they are local so maybe it is not a bad bit of road. That said a drunk is just as likely to run into you in town if your numbers on his bumper. All very unfortunate.
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from the follow up:
"For the offence of driving without due care and attention, he was ordered to pay a £100 fine, £15 victim surcharge and £85 court costs."
that's it?
Stupid. In France, tis the opposite! You get a 90€ fine for going less than 10% over the limit!
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That is true too. We should have a minimum speed limit for motorways and dual carriageways. I subscribe to the opinion that slow drivers cause quite a few incidents, not least some where the faster driver gets the blame by default. Case in point I ran into the back of a Metro in Burford in a van loaded and trailing. Initially it was all my fault till I pointed out the angle that the van had impacted the car. This undermined the guys innocent plea as in fact he had pulled out under my wheels without looking and I caught him at just enough angle that it was clear what happened. He would have got away with it if he had got on with it but he was an old git in a Metro so I had to leave some of my tyres on the road but still hit him. That same van squashed another Metro in a similar incident council guys found in my favour as the guy was dicking about so the claim was not supported. (Old style Fiat Ducatto, four accidents, none judged my fault but certainly one error of judgement in there, and bought in accident damaged, yet it still ran throughout without more than steering adjustments and a tyre for all of that. Brilliant. Much better than modern plastic bumpered whimp wagons. Did about 7 Mannhiems and lots more in it, never let me down).