RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Jonathan Poll on June 18, 2012, 06:51:49 PM
-
Hey all,
Interesting pictures here:
http://autolexikon-thyssen.de/index.php?aktion=detail&datsatz=0&marke&typ=hoffman&konstrukteur&hersteller&bj_von&bj_bis&land&ps_von&ps_bis&volltext&nummer=1684&id=alZRkGAF0GMxesPl1B3b4kgvuILr9D20120618150308#nogo
Good if you understand german!
JP
-
i don't get german but thats a Hoffman not an Iso - another can of worms :)
-
Wow, I have not seen these pics of the Hoffmann Autokabine before. Thanks to BMW it never made it into production.
-
i don't get german but thats a Hoffman not an Iso - another can of worms :)
Even if it says Hoffman in big letters, I still said ISO...
Still, great piece of history for the Isetta!
-
Here is the translation
The bicycle manufacturer Jakob Oswald Hoffmann from Lintorf near Düsseldorf had 1949 built the Italian motor scooter Vespa for Germany License and thus gained overnight wealth, fame and market presence. In the spring of 1954, he violently therefore tried to get the Germany license for the Italian ISO Isetta. Because negotiated but was already ISO with BMW, Hoffmann for the construction of the Penguin small car interested. However, he remained in the prototype stage. Therefore, Hoffmann built an other Isetta without further ADO. Be mobile, which he "Auto cab 250" baptized, had a similar shape, but instead of the front door side doors, because Hoffmann could not experience bring, whether the front door to the Isetta was patented, but it was assumed. His car had two child seats in the rear next to the front seat. In its standard version, Hoffmann's car had a rear-stopped, right side door and a fabric hood, in a planned luxury version, it should be even two side doors. Also a proper dashboard was possible thanks to the stationary front. In contrast to the ISO Isetta, the Hoffmann cabin offered the coveted changed for the four-speed gearbox and a longer-running rear with cooling air inlet under the rear window. The Hoffmann auto cabin had the following dimensions: 2.28 x 1.39 x 1.35 m. wheelbase 1.65 m (ISO / BMW Isetta 1.50 m). Track width front 1.22 m, rear 0, 52 m. empty weight 350 kg. The wheels were hanging in front on deferred Längsschwingarmen, the two closely related together rear wheels on a small axle with Halbelliptikfedern. The rear wheels were not fully streamlined, the headlights were deep. The "Hoffmann-car-cab 250" wore the cylinder-four-stroke Boxer engine developed in Lintorf 298 displacement and 18.5 HP at 5400 RPM which was used also in the Hoffmann motorcycle Governor with cardan shaft in the rear cc. In the cab, the engine was centrally before the two rear wheels, which were together with a rail gauge of 520 mm. The cabin was specified with a top speed of 85 km/h and a consumption of 3.8 l / 100 km.Already on 2 June 1954, while BMW was still the production preparations for the Isetta, Hoffmann showed a prototype of his cabin of the public. August 1, 1954 BMW and ISO submitted together a lawsuit against Hoffmann at the District Court of Munich. It was based on the passage "slavish imitation" and utility model rights. However, began in Lintorf late August / early September 1954 the delivery of the first cabins of all 113 examples were built until February 1955.As the Vespa sales had fallen drastically, Hoffmann felt forced to build the cabin to do so. For Jakob Oswald Hoffmann it was even thicker. The Piaggio works had cancelled the Vespa license him, because he had made improvements on their own. As a result, Hoffmann's house bank announced all loans. At the end of 1954, Hoffmann works closed their doors, even before the Isetta process to an end was. BMW got Hoffmann to 20 percent to 80 percent right. BMW and Hoffmann parted amicably, he got even a BMW 501 V8 to leave to the gift. His workers but got their reward no longer, they then plundered the factory. The receiver had more cabins out of existing parts. A whole series of 350 kg cabins were sold in 1956 to rock-bottom prices in the surrounding area of Düsseldorf.
-
where DID they all go ?
-
Indeed. There must have been a either a flaw in the mechanics/design or they were good enough to be used till they wore out. Its a sort of Neanderthal Isetta. Related, part of the history, just missed to actually see a functioning one but not in the main series of links that gave us our Brighton Isetta so does it matter?
-
Dear Friends
It is said that after BMW won the court case for design infringement and the banks forclosed on Hoffman, BMW quietly purchased each car that was sold and scrapped them. How true this is I do not know. But if BMW had won the case and the design rights reverted to BMW, they may not have wanted any warranty claims for a design they had no control over Lancia did the same thing with the Beta after the problems they had with rusting.
By the looks of the evidence the Hoffman was a better vehicle than the BMW Isetta. But I am not so sure about the engine which had a few quality related problems.
Chris Thomas
-
VEEEERY INTERESTING BUT ........
-
Dear Friends
It is said that after BMW won the court case for design infringement and the banks forclosed on Hoffman, BMW quietly purchased each car that was sold and scrapped them.
Chris Thomas
I'm sure I've read exactly the same thing somewhere (I thought it was in Tony's book, but it isn't). Have to have another look.
-
Dear Friends
It is said that after BMW won the court case for design infringement and the banks forclosed on Hoffman, BMW quietly purchased each car that was sold and scrapped them. How true this is I do not know. But if BMW had won the case and the design rights reverted to BMW, they may not have wanted any warranty claims for a design they had no control over Lancia did the same thing with the Beta after the problems they had with rusting.
By the looks of the evidence the Hoffman was a better vehicle than the BMW Isetta. But I am not so sure about the engine which had a few quality related problems.
Chris Thomas
Didn't know there were any problems with copyright and BMW, I thought they bought the rights!!!
JP
-
Dear Jonathan
Unless you see the terms of the court case settlement it would be imposible to know what was the final grounds and conditions on which the case was won or lost. It may be that the costs that BMW presented to the court included buying up the cars that had been sold already.
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
-
Dear Malcolm Parker ( Rusty Chrome)
I think it may have been Wikipedia!!!!!
Chris Thomas
-
No, I think it might have been this Spanish site
http://www.autopasion18.com/HISTORIA-HOFFMANN%20%28Hoffmann-Werke%29.htm (http://www.autopasion18.com/HISTORIA-HOFFMANN%20%28Hoffmann-Werke%29.htm)
-
In the dim dusty mists of time I can recall the suggestion that BMW actively removed the Hoffman production being mentioned in the early '80's. That was probably via the Isetta Gazetta. Stuart, time to get your archive out.
BMW were pretty aggressive over the Isetta as they threatened to sue Ernst Heinkel over his car, basically because of the front opening door. This was suggested as one reason he choose not to invest in a further redevelopment of the car but to sell of the two production lines to Ireland and the Argentine tying both into buying the engines which he continued to manufacturer and which carried a good margin for his company for a simpler product than a whole car plus marketing initiative. In doing this car production was shifted outside Germany and made any threat of action by BMW very much more difficult. Besides Heinkel was allowed to restore his primary business, which was aero engineering so his interest was concentrated elsewhere.
There just has to be a Hoffman somewhere though.
-
No, I think it might have been this Spanish site
http://www.autopasion18.com/HISTORIA-HOFFMANN%20%28Hoffmann-Werke%29.htm (http://www.autopasion18.com/HISTORIA-HOFFMANN%20%28Hoffmann-Werke%29.htm)
Well looking at the Hoffman chassis on that web site, its such a blatant copy of the Isetta, even the steering arrangement looks the same, rear axle etc. As BMW had done things properly and bought the license I cant see how they could have done anything else other than sue them. Also interesting that they used a horizontally opposed engine designed by Richard Küchen, and shaft driven. Perhaps fodder for a part 2 article by Chris. Or maybe time for a new article just on the Hoffman company. Shame there isn't a survivor though.
-
Wow, I have not seen these pics of the Hoffmann Autokabine before. Thanks to BMW it never made it into production.
Mea culpa! Apparently 113 of these rare beasts were produced before BMW intervened.
-
Is there anybody out there who is a Hoffman Expert who could write a Hoffman article for Rumcar News.
Of course the most obvious place to look would be Germany, but who?
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
-
Much of the information on the net appears to have been derived from the Detsche Kleinwagen book by Hanns Peter Rosellen. The Hoffman Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoffmann_%28motorcycle%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoffmann_%28motorcycle%29) does have a useful link to an article that appeared in Der Speigel in 1955. http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-31968734.html (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-31968734.html) amongst other things this states that 80 of the cars had been manufactured. The book (it would be great to have a proper english translation at some time!) states that the 80 cars were "delivered" and about another 33 built between January and March 1955. The Der Speigel article implies that much of the reason behind the collapse was Hoffman painting a very rosy picture to his bankers about how well things were going when they clearly weren't, whilst other material suggests perhaps more extensive dodgy dealiings in post-war Germany's industrial hierarchy. http://www.sip-scootershop.com/community/blogs/classic_scene-blog_en/archive/2011/10/31/the-forgotten-end-of-the-hoffmann-factory-1954.aspx (http://www.sip-scootershop.com/community/blogs/classic_scene-blog_en/archive/2011/10/31/the-forgotten-end-of-the-hoffmann-factory-1954.aspx)
-
Is there anybody out there who is a Hoffman Expert who could write a Hoffman article for Rumcar News.
Of course the most obvious place to look would be Germany, but who?
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
I think the Hoffman was a featured car in RCN a few years ago.
-
Is there any link with this wacky design?
http://www.microcarmuseum.com/tour/hoffmann.html
JP
-
Dear Malcolm
Thank you for all the links, there is some good stuff there.
Dear Marcus
According to my list it was issue 35 which would have been 19 years ago. How the memory plays tricks on us all
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
-
Ah, that could be that when I started subscribing a few years ago I bought all the available back issues and gradually read them all over the years, so it would have been recent to me! I might be getting old, but my memory is still dammit I can't remember the right word!