RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: richard on June 23, 2012, 06:30:51 PM
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bit quiet on forum - is there anything we can glean from this period road test photo ? perhaps not
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I think it is in the Brooklands Gold Portfolio book on the Isetta. It was in a motoring magazine's article comparing the cars for MPG and general qualities. Brooklands Books also did one on Messerschmitts and another on Morgan 3 wheelers, and I have 'em all!
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Is that a trade plate on the Gordon?
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hmmm I recognise the car on the right...
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Apart from the bubble and possibly the Bond the other three have more or less slipped into obscurity the three to the left are all 55 registration the Gorden is unusual and the JARC number keeps coming up on various models do any of these cars still exist
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if you subscribe to RUM magazine you couldnt say the Petite on the left is obscure :) :)or indeed the Gordon with the trade plates . the bubble window Isetta isnt as common as sliding window models . i always get Gills , Astra's and Jarcs mixed up without reference books but either way these are RUM cars
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There is a suggestion of the Isetta having some additional wheel trims behind the clip on cap.
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Outside the microcar people how many could name four of the five I have never seen a Gordon
The Isetta is an early BMW one with the long headlight nacelles
I shall obviously have to subscribe to the RUM magazine to read more
Good photo lots of interest
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Dear Richard
Looking at the building it looks like the back of a pub or hotel. The tiles are Sussex hand made plain tiles, so could well be in Sussex. I would guess somewhere like Crowborough.
Chris Thomas
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i have been thinking that possibly the rarest and most endangered thing in the future may in fact be the English country pub ! around here they are becoming vets , indian restaurants and private houses :(
thanks chris amazing what we see in the pictures
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Outside the microcar people how many could name four of the five I have never seen a Gordon
The Isetta is an early BMW one with the long headlight nacelles
I shall obviously have to subscribe to the RUM magazine to read more
Good photo lots of interest
Jean has one in the collection. It was beautifully restored by Mr Dobie of this forum.
In the road review the car reviewed was called a Jarc little Horse, later re-named as the Astra.
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I know they are about but most microcars were made in small quantities and 20 years ago were not mentioned I have had an interest for 40 years after all its not long ago BMW admitted to the ISETTA when it became collectable The JARC is probarly the most obscure
Nice to know somebody thought they were wotrh saving
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CONFUSION REIGNS ;)Jean has a Gordon in the collection - marcus perhaps not clear . i don't think a Jarc exists they probably made a handful only . tony marshall showed a pic of a rolling chassis that may still survive - does it ?
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Yes Richard, the Jarc rolling chassis still survives, it is currently hiding in one of our sheds at the farm. The same chassis was used later on the Astra Van (I hasten to add micro van) and then after that on the Gill Getabout a little saloon car. There are two Astra vans on the Register, one which is in very poor condition is in the hands of Tony M the other one which has been restored has changed hands several times in recent years lastly in an auction, sadly none of the successive owners have notified us where it is. Alastair has many vehicles on the Register now marked owner unknown.
Once a vehicle is on the Register it is there for its life span and successive owners are supposed to let us know when it changes hands but they so often fail to do so and we lose trace of the vehicle. The whole idea when I set up the Register 30 odd years ago, was to keep track of the unusual vehicles to make sure they didn't get destroyed because no one knew what they were. There was no ulterior motive, we just wanted to make sure they were preserved and cared for and to build up a picture about each marque. You fellow followers of the this Forum can help us by being our eyes and ears, should you see, hear of or acquire any unusual microcar please, please let Alastair know with as much detail as possible, then may be we can trace some of the cars that have dropped under the radar or even find some as yet unknown gem that is waiting to be cherished. If you enjoy and are interested in the preservation of these unusual little beasts please, please help us keep the Register updated Jean
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Yes Richard, the Jarc rolling chassis still survives, it is currently hiding in one of our sheds at the farm. The same chassis was used later on the Astra Van (I hasten to add micro van) and then after that on the Gill Getabout a little saloon car. There are two Astra vans on the Register, one which is in very poor condition is in the hands of Tony M the other one which has been restored has changed hands several times in recent years lastly in an auction, sadly none of the successive owners have notified us where it is. Alastair has many vehicles on the Register now marked owner unknown.
Once a vehicle is on the Register it is there for its life span and successive owners are supposed to let us know when it changes hands but they so often fail to do so and we lose trace of the vehicle. The whole idea when I set up the Register 30 odd years ago, was to keep track of the unusual vehicles to make sure they didn't get destroyed because no one knew what they were. There was no ulterior motive, we just wanted to make sure they were preserved and cared for and to build up a picture about each marque. You fellow followers of the this Forum can help us by being our eyes and ears, should you see, hear of or acquire any unusual microcar please, please let Alastair know with as much detail as possible, then may be we can trace some of the cars that have dropped under the radar or even find some as yet unknown gem that is waiting to be cherished. If you enjoy and are interested in the preservation of these unusual little beasts please, please help us keep the Register updated Jean
... I think I will make my dad register his cars... Hardly any of his are "RUM'd"!
All of mine are, I think :P (not sure about the schmitt)
JP
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Thats a great reply from Jean so glad that these obscure micros still exist
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do any of these cars still exist
Interestingly, 15 FMU was a 1956 road test Isetta and 4 FMU is a 1955 bubble last seen in Surrey. I have no records of 14 FMU.
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I4FMU and 15FMU are both in the brooklands book both 1956 tests August 55 registrations all are early cars
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lets date all the models then - earliest possible for each - i know the aprox date of the photo i.e. season and year - whats your best bet ?
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Alright here goes
AC is a Surry Reg June 55 that month
Bond is early September 55 Preston CBC
iSETTA is Middlesex August 55
Gordon trade plate?
JARC is London April 54
We know the last had been rebodied at least once The Isetta turns up in a road test February 56
I would say winter 55
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The AC was in a road test in September 55 and the JARC was advertised around that time as well. Motorcycle show was in November but the Isetta and JARC were banned as four wheelers so they were probably at the motor show the previous month, however the photo looks more like spring than autumn/winter so how about early March 1956?
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Dear Malcolm
I would agree with you that it would be Feb or March. By the angle of the sun it would be mid afternoon, just after last orders at Lunchtime. Looking at the foot prints I would say that three of the drivers were wearing Brogues and Duffle coats and all smoked fags.
Chris Thomas
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There is more to a Honda Insight than meets the eye!
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Dear Malcolm
I would agree with you that it would be Feb or March. By the angle of the sun it would be mid afternoon, just after last orders at Lunchtime. Looking at the foot prints I would say that three of the drivers were wearing Brogues and Duffle coats and all smoked fags.
Chris Thomas
I think you'll find the left-handed piano player was not the one in the Gordon. Though protected by a layer of greaseproof paper, his cheese and onion sandwich would have meant curtains in a vehicle with such imperspicuous directional composure. The trade plates are more likely to have been favoured by someone with a light brown corduroy jacket with a faux fur collar smoking Three Nuns Empire Blend in a lightly used Westminster briar, unless it was a tuesday.
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Dear Malcolm
I would agree with you that it would be Feb or March. By the angle of the sun it would be mid afternoon, just after last orders at Lunchtime. Looking at the foot prints I would say that three of the drivers were wearing Brogues and Duffle coats and all smoked fags.
Chris Thomas
I think you'll find the left-handed piano player was not the one in the Gordon. Though protected by a layer of greaseproof paper, his cheese and onion sandwich would have meant curtains in a vehicle with such imperspicuous directional composure. The trade plates are more likely to have been favoured by someone with a light brown corduroy jacket with a faux fur collar smoking Three Nuns Empire Blend in a lightly used Westminster briar, unless it was a tuesday.
Ah, the power of deductive reasoning. It's elementary, my dear Watson.
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do any of these cars still exist
Interestingly, 15 FMU was a 1956 road test Isetta and 4 FMU is a 1955 bubble last seen in Surrey. I have no records of 14 FMU.
14 FMU is pictured 5 times on pages 24 and 25 of the Isetta Gold portfolio. First registered in August 1955 Its has a 245cc 12 bhp engine and a road test was published in Autocar on feb 3rd 1956.
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Whats the jerry can for in the corner of the picture
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for those of you viewing in black and white - the wall behind the red and green cars is actually a pale yellow ;) the door therein was known as the LEMON ENTRY my dear Watson ;D
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hi marcus - i have never seen a copy of any comparative figures you couldnt post the resulting stats could you ? - or poss post me a copy ?
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the article said it was winter 1955 that could i suppose be january or december but i think the earlier .
i reckon they are:
A Petite Mark II - 4 bars on grill, chrome strip on wing with Petite script,
A Bond Mark D deluxe , headlamp peaks ,wing chrome strips - is that a badge on the front grill ? a privately owned car then ?
An Isetta , German LHD has it an upright door handle ?
A Gordon Standard Model on trade plates similar to a roadtest i have - must look it up -different car - may be the same plates
Jarc pre mid 56 when it became he Astra , before it later became the Gill
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The Jerry can was always carried by the team just in case a car broke down. The first vehicle to break down was not repaired but dowsed in petrol and set alight, while the driver joined one of the others to complete the tight editorial deadline before nightfall.
Guess which car broke down first?
Chris Thomas
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Does anybody have any more old photographs we can ponder and speculate over?
Chris Thomas
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good fun innit but no one else bothers :(
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So who's going to be brave enough to list them in order of reliability and the best
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Jarc and Gill
went up the Hill
to fetch a jerrycan of water.
Jarc broke down
and smoked out the town
and Gill became a rumbling Astra
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My filing system is a mess, but I did find the Isetta book and it is not in it so it must be in the Messerschmitt one, I'll try to find it, I might be some time!
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Seeing as three of them have the same Villiers engine, one has a BMW engine, it was probably the Gill that broke down first, hence being bext to the jerry can.
Chris Thomas
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Dickie, I have now found my Messerschmitt Gold Portfolio book (I also have the Morgan one) and there is the article called Air Cooled Outings. The photo which started this thread is at the end, but the pub has been airbrushed out.
I will try to get the article photocopied this week, any one else want copies?
I assume the jerry can was to put equal amounts of petrol into each car and see how far they went, but here are the figures:
Gordon 41.2 mpg
Bond 53.2
KR 175 72.5
Jarc 52.0
AC Petite 35.5
Isetta 44.2
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So where did they hide the KR175 or did they get that in the pub that's the mpg question answered anyone for ride and comfort
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The article says; "The example used was privately owned and had covered a considerable mileage before the tests", so perhaps it was not present for the photo shoot, as the others are probably new. It also states " Stiff suspension results in a rough ride on any but the smoothest surface..."
Another photo shows the 5 cars but no KR in a casual group outside the pub, and is captioned DAWN PATROL - After a week's commuting the miniature cars assemble at the Red Lions, Bledlow (Bucks?) for detail tests around a country circuit and over a level measured distance. The trees are mostly leafless, perhaps buds and small leaves but definition not great. the book's index states: Motor, April 11th 1956, but completely fails to mention clothing, footwear or other matters which are of amusement to us but not strictly pertinent to a serious article!
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thanks a lot marcus
i thought the comments regarding footwear, clothing et al , him again , were pertinant but not funny ;D
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No probs, d'ye want a copy?
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yes pleese !! anything Gordon related ,particularly comparisons , i would be interested as it generally gets VERY bad press - nowadays anyway :)
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Ok! Will try to get it done this week. The reviews of all the cars are very "matter-of-fact" as they tended to be in those days, and neither praise nor criticism are at all strong, but did say "sharp left turns... ...were found inadvisable" and "...speeds above 30 mph suggested that brakes of greater efficiency would be an advantage".
Brooklands Books, Motorbooks International ISBN 1 85520 2417
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Dear Marcus
Thank you for the definitive answer. So my idea that it was Sussex as wrong, also mid afternoon was wrong, but I did get the pub bit right.
Thanks again
Chris Thomas
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actually 4/10 see me young thomas.
no engines are the same ! petite used a 348cc ? industrial Villiers engine , Bond by now the 197cc 12v siba dynastart Villiers , Isetta the BMW , Gordon the older 6v 197cc single and the JARC - was it the 328cc excelsior ? agreed two were similar but not the same TUT TUT :)
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The article says; "The example used was privately owned and had covered a considerable mileage before the tests", so perhaps it was not present for the photo shoot, as the others are probably new. It also states " Stiff suspension results in a rough ride on any but the smoothest surface..."
Another photo shows the 5 cars but no KR in a casual group outside the pub, and is captioned DAWN PATROL - After a week's commuting the miniature cars assemble at the Red Lions, Bledlow (Bucks?) for detail tests around a country circuit and over a level measured distance. The trees are mostly leafless, perhaps buds and small leaves but definition not great. the book's index states: Motor, April 11th 1956, but completely fails to mention clothing, footwear or other matters which are of amusement to us but not strictly pertinent to a serious article!
Ah, the wonderful Bledlow Ridge. Just down the road from Lewknor. The course would thus probably be at the foot of the Chilterns out towards Thame.
The KR 175 is not in the picture as having blown the competition out of the water it is off down the garage getting petrol for the British gas guzzlers.
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Yup, I used to stay there with my Godmother and her family.
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Perhaps they were ashamed of it and hid it after all you could park it round the back of the others and you would not see it
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Then again it could have left early 'to get through traffic jams in Newbury'. Old history but the perennial excuse for southern Schmitters to leave events early back a'longa.
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I reckon the photographer would have been booked for perhaps 1 or 2 hours for the dawn shots then the "on-the-road" shots. The other cars were still owned by factories/agents, the KR was privately owned. The Trade would have been VERY keen to get the publicity and ensured they were there on time, the privateer(s) in the KR perhaps not so bothered, and perhaps overslept, were delayed or took a scenic route, missing the dawn arrival and line-up shots, but arriving in time for the action ones.
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The KR probably broke down!
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LD, copies on their way to you!
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ta ;)