RUMCars Forum
General Category => Sales & Auctions => Topic started by: Chris Thomas on June 29, 2012, 11:41:20 AM
-
To all you budding collectors with deep pockets
A very rare collection of Microcars will be coming up for auction on 14 July at Blenheim Palace, oxfordshire. Amongst the Rolls Royces, and other classics there will be the following cars: -
Brutsch Mopetta (original and not a copy)
Peel P50 (original and not a copy)
Peel P50 Prototype (original and not a copy)
Messerschmitt KR175
Peel Trident (original and not a copy)
Scootacar
Tourette (as seen in RCN)
Rytecraft
Pashley Portland (as seen in RCN)
Even if you do not have the funds to buy one, just going to see them before they disppear into somebody elses collection will be worth going to the auction.
I understand there is world wide interest on these items, so it will be interesting to see what they sell for.
Happy bidding
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
-
Here's two of them when I owned them in 1976/7. The red Peel is the one up for auction and the Tourette.
The blue Peel EME is the one everybody has seen with Clarkson sodding about with it at the BBC.
-
it would be good if someone who attends the sale takes some good reference photos of trim , equipment dash interior etc. - if these end up abroad then at least future restorers would have some reference points . with 3 of my projects there is no photo of seats ,dash , knobs n things as far as i know . most photos taken seem to always be the 3/4 front view - almost never the back
-
HOW DID THAT HAPPEN!
How did half my text come out in blue? when it was all typed in black. It must be the cyber men again.
Chris Thomas
-
I'll be there if I'm not in France. I'll reveal Ive got my eye on one or two things, including the 1933 Rolls Royce 20/25 pick-up..... :o
There's also a Coronet & Isetta in the sale too.
-
These are Malcolm Goldsworthy's cars that were previously discussed here:
http://www.rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=3289
-
I've just remembered something funny from back in 1976 when 'restoring' MHX. I fitted NSU Quickly rings to the piston when I couldn't get the proper ones. I needed some canvas to repair the seat back, so to save money I used a new GPO mail sack to strengthen it up. Oh, yes, I hope the new owner, if there is to be one, doesn't take off the plastic corner bumpers because they will find lots of old half pennies with holes drilled in them being used as washers as it was Sunday, when the shops were closed. Also here's a picture of the rear showing how far out the rear wheel and frame was fitted from new. I had to redrill new fixing holes in the floor on the off side as they were two inches out. No wonder the lady who bought it new turned it over on her first outing never to drive it again. Oh dear, I hope the new buyer/owner doesn't read the forum. ;D
-
praps THATS why they never show a rearview ;)
-
There's a link to Coy's catalogue here. Page 4 is where the microcars are at.
http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?auctionID=24&lots=1 (http://www.coys.co.uk/auction.php?auctionID=24&lots=1)
-
HOW DID THAT HAPPEN!
How did half my text come out in blue? when it was all typed in black. It must be the cyber men again.
Chris Thomas
It could tell you were cursing under your breath as your pennies were less likely to stretch to a purchase! So now we know you want a Scootacar or a Tourette judging by your text.
-
I'm suprised about the estimates...
Surely the 175 would be worth more? It looks nice original condition! Not sure about the aluminium on the rear of the right wing though!
Dome looks OK for an orignal, and paint looks quite good for the year! (if original).
Wouldn't it be worth nearer 10k?
Also I thought the P50 prototype would be worth more... I guess the normal one would be worth more than the prototype, because its the "popular" one, but only 2 prototypes are surviving!
Time to get a summer job to attend the auction ;)
-
those prices are there to tempt you in jonathan ;)
-
i believe this is malcolm goldsworthy with said mopetta . absolutely perfect and driveable :)
-
Ah, but bear in mind Richard, that series of photos was taken 25 years ago at the shooting of the August 1987 Classic & Sportscar magazine “Small Fry” microcar group test at Bruntingthorpe Proving Grounds, Leicester. Several of the same photos have been used many times since in many different publications. Mind you, the Mopetta seemed to go alright at the Celebration weekend in 2009. Once our Andy persuaded it to start.... :)
-
Ah, but bear in mind Richard, that series of photos was taken 25 years ago at the shooting of the August 1987 Classic & Sportscar magazine “Small Fry” microcar group test at Bruntingthorpe Proving Grounds, Leicester. Several of the same photos have been used many times since in many different publications. Mind you, the Mopetta seemed to go alright at the Celebration weekend in 2009. Once our Andy persuaded it to start.... :)
I spot a gordon and scootacar in the back ;)
-
The estimates are interesting. It is unusual for a reserve to be more than the estimate. So do we take it these are come and bid to buy prices. If so there might be an element of risk if high prices are expected for the rarer cars since they can be knocked down at prices some of us might pay. I am sure the expectation is the wealthy and collectors will see them and chip in to drive the prices up. I am afraid as a cynics I am always aware of Max bidding on the 'phone as well. Though, of course, I would have to say I am sure Coys do not do such things.
Is this a missed opportunity by Coys? If they had contact the microworld in good time they could have pulled in more microcars for auction, on the understanding that no lot would compete with MG's cars. Also earlier enthusiast warning, longer to get the news out to the genuinely interested via Micro media. More cars in on a niche market with more interest and potential bidders and therefore higher prices.
Such a sell off needs to be planned ahead and strategised for maximum impact and hopefully best prices. Like pulling in some 40 Microcars into one sale with a year's warning to the sellers so cars are ready. An ideal world, of course.
Being as this is local it might be worth a sniff.
-
look further back and see the Peel 50 and Peel Trident
-
look further back and see the Peel 50 and Peel Trident
Saw the trident just before I saw your reply!
All the garage needs is a nobel ;)
-
sure it will have one somewhere :)
-
Don't tell me you don't know where that "Garage" is or who it belongs to, Jonathan.... :-*
-
Dear Stuart
Of course Jonathan does not know the "Garage", he very rarely comes it England to meet his friends.
Chris Thomas
-
Now I know! Jean Hammonds museum!
I didnt thinm at first, but when you said, after looking at where te Peels where (elevated) and a quick look on google prooved that the scootacar and frisky are both in that museum!
Well, I have never been to that museum... I think I should!
-
Dear Jonathan
The next open day is 29 July 2012. Just enough time to save up and fly into Gatwick, Train to Redhill and change onto train to Staplehurst or Headcorn.
See you there
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
-
Dear Jonathan
The next open day is 29 July 2012. Just enough time to save up and fly into Gatwick, Train to Redhill and change onto train to Staplehurst or Headcorn.
See you there
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
I think were gonna be in another country then!
-
Ah, but bear in mind Richard, that series of photos was taken 25 years ago at the shooting of the August 1987 Classic & Sportscar magazine “Small Fry” microcar group test at Bruntingthorpe Proving Grounds, Leicester. Several of the same photos have been used many times since in many different publications. Mind you, the Mopetta seemed to go alright at the Celebration weekend in 2009. Once our Andy persuaded it to start.... :)
I spot a gordon and scootacar in the back ;)
@ Jean's ;D
-
So, does anyone know where I can find the results?
JP
-
Give us chance to set the prices Jonathan, the auction doesn't start for another 37 hours..... ;) :-*
-
So, does anyone know where I can find the results?
JP
Ask FIFA, they know such things for a brown envelope.
-
Give us chance to set the prices Jonathan, the auction doesn't start for another 37 hours..... ;) :-*
I blame my dad for that, he thought it was yesterday ;)
-
anyone off here going?
-
Most of the Peel Mafia will be present tomorrow, as will I be :o and I've just these past few moments returned from a few hours viewing the cars at Blenheim, for the palace is but ten miles up the road from me. All cars seem to be present & correct bar the blue Isetta which is nowhere to be seen. As befits the occasion, all the micros are nestled around the foot of the rostrum bar the Coronet, which is outside under a gazebo. Despite the sun being out most of today, the ground conditions in & around the auction are verging on the swamp-like. If you're going tomorrow, wear boots or wellies & drive a 4x4! Don't say I didn't warn you....
The first advance photos from my camera should be up in an hour or so, sometime tonight anyway. Despite this being the main viewing day, Coy's seem totally unprepared & unready. I had to get most of my photos dodging the staff running round like headless chickens pushing big posh cars in & around and I couldn't get as many photo's of our Bob Dobie's old P50 or the Rytecraft Scootacar as I would have liked, as the staff suddenly saw fit to block them in with the ongoing building of the telephone bidding table.
As I left, a rather Young member of Coy's auction staff was being detailed to give all the micro's a quick buff-up & polish. As I left the entrance to the marquee, I noticed out the corner of my eye, his water bucket connect rather heavily with the back of the Trident's dome. I kept on walking....
-
Cheers Stuart, I look forward to seeing the photos. Malcolm has visited my Studios a few times (we have a mutual friend) and I have chatted to him for quite a time about his collection, but never found time to visit it at his place.
-
the more i hear about coys the more i fear malcolm might have done better elsewhere ;)
-
I have to agree! Frankly a London auction (like the famous Bruce Weiner one in Wandsworth) would attract a much bigger international crowd than having it at Blenheim, and Malcolm is fairly close to London too.
-
Right then, here we are. You'll have to make do with this four for the time being as my computer is having dificulties in uploading the photos off the camera at the moment, but you get seven of the cars in these four.....
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction26.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction13.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction3.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction25.jpg)
-
Three more very slowly uploaded....
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction27.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction22.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction29.jpg)
-
Cheers Stuart, nice photos.
-
You are awesome Stuart!
-
Give us chance to set the prices Jonathan, the auction doesn't start for another 37 hours..... ;) :-*
I blame my dad for that, he thought it was yesterday ;)
He thought it was all over. It is now!
-
Interesting to see the prices whenever...
-
I am going to predict and then lets see how it compares to the final results:
Red P50: £21,000
Blue P50: £30,000
Trident: £24,000
Mopetta: £20,000
Tourette: £16,000
KR175: £18,000
Coronet: £6,000
Scootcar: £15,000
:-\
-
Are the cars sold already ? Prizes ???
-
THE RESULTS ARE IN!
The micros have done their turn, between 3pm & 4pm all the cars including the previously missing Blue Isetta rattled through the hammer. Now let's see how Jim's predictions panned out....
Red P50 MHX 90C £21,000 Unsold, Reserve not Met (Spot on Jim!)
Blue P50 (Prototype) £16,000 Sold
Peel Trident £30,000 Sold
Mopetta £32,000 Sold
Tourette £13,000 Sold
Messerschmitt KR175 £8,000 Sold
Coronet £6,000 Sold
Scootacar Mk1 £9,000 Sold
Blue Isetta £9,000 Sold
Red Isetta £11,000 Unsold, Reserve not Met
Pashley Pelican £2,000 Sold
Rytecraft Scootacar £4,000 Sold
All prices plus 15% Buyers Premium.
Persons spotted lurking in the crowd were the Peel Mafia, the ICR, "Peel Cars Ltd", Detzer Collection of Miami & our own Mystery Essex Collector....
Cue discussions.........
-
I don't understand. I thought original Peels were worth £100K all day long?
-
Interesting result. Apparently the Peel Proto is heading to the Isle of Man.
Stuart you did not get a good photo of the Pashley Pelician, but I assume that's it to the left of Peel MHX?
Prices generally somewhat lower than I thought they would be, is this due to the auction's location, the economic crash, or other factors?
-
...and the best place for it say's I if the prototype is indeed heading back to the island! :)
Fret ye not Marcus, Pashley photos have indeed been collected. I'm just about to start uploading today's photos off the camera so stay tuned for a few on here either tonight or tomorrow morning. I've been asked by Chris to do a report on the auction for RCN so he'll be geting a few of the photos in due course for publication. How about you Jim, you want a report & some photos for Microcar News too?
-
Great stuff Stuart, cheers. Yes, it will be great if it's true that No 1 is heading home, so unlikely that I want cast iron FACT before I believe it, I was sure it would go to USA, Japan or Germany. Aside from the curio and historical value I am not a great Peel fan, but No. 1 would be great to have here!
-
HERE ? isle of Man(n) doesnt consider itself HERE marcus ;)
-
OK, British Isles !
-
right sort of price for the Tourette ? or did that go a little cheaply ? wheres it gone ? wonder if my mate from Wirral got the Pashley , i know he mentioned he was after it
-
Now I regret even more that I didn't bid on the big auction in 2008. There were some real steals there.
Only ones I tried for that I came anywhere near their selling price in this auction were the Scootacar and the Messershmitt. Were these also the only ones that sold for more than their projected values?
The one that I was most excited about was the Tourette when they had the projected value down around 4 or 5 thousand GBP. Unfortunately they came to their senses and raised their prediction just in time for the buyers to have more reason to do same. Bob's efforts have been vindicated.
-
Shuuuuush!!! Steve, remember you signed the official secrets act! ;)
I think 15K is cheap for a Tourette, only two survivors, all British egg shaped microcar, someones had a bargain, I do hope its Wayne, that way I hope to get to crawl all over it some time and take copious notes! Also it would be nice for it to stay in the country. Does anyone know who bought it?
-
only two survivors ? i bet in 5 years or so there are more ;)
-
How about you Jim, you want a report & some photos for Microcar News too?
If possible, yes. I think I will have a different take on this too. (more on that at a later date)
I thought the prices were quite fair to be honest.
I would have a personally paid a bit more for a few of them like the Tourette or the KR175, but I have no money to spend, probably because I pay too much for things!
If I had gobs of money I figure I would pay crazy money for many things as I do now,
but I also figure that if I actually HAD gobs of money... I might not be so carefree with it.
I think that when people that speculate on what the value of something is, they do so with their "imaginary money".
When "real money" is used....the results may vary.
-
Cor! Not a bad investment over 35/36 years.
Sorry Bob but there are three genuine Tourettes about and I've heard that there's maybe a genuine body in pieces somewhere.
Rob.
-
Have it your way Rob but we only know the where abouts of two so thats all I'm counting! [correction, we only know the where abouts of one now since this afternoon!]
-
As far as Jean and myself know there are Two in Kent. There were three until the auction.
-
Agreed Rob but the Second one in Kent has been lost track of.
Hey You are not the mystery buyer are you? Bought your old car back? Wouldnt that be something!
-
Sold overseas I expect for 50p. I can see them being made in China right now. ;D
-
The story I heard was that the owner turned up at Jeans and registered the car with RUM but he was in the middle of a house move at the time, that was the last anyone heard from the chap. Just think, it could still be languishing in a shed out there unappreciated!
-
appreciating though praps ;)
-
Hey You are not the mystery buyer are you? Bought your old car back? Wouldnt that be something!
I wish it was but I haven't got two brass farthings to rub together! :'(
-
The story I heard was that the owner turned up at Jeans and registered the car with RUM but he was in the middle of a house move at the time, that was the last anyone heard from the chap. Just think, it could still be languishing in a shed out there unappreciated!
What about the one in Devon.
-
THE RESULTS ARE IN!
The micros have done their turn, between 3pm & 4pm all the cars including the previously missing Blue Isetta rattled through the hammer. Now let's see how Jim's predictions panned out....
Red P50 MHX 90C £21,000 Unsold, Reserve not Met (Spot on Jim!)
Blue P50 (Prototype) £16,000 Sold
Peel Trident £30,000 Sold
Mopetta £32,000 Sold
Tourette £13,000 Sold
Messerschmitt KR175 £8,000 Sold
Coronet £6,000 Sold
Scootacar Mk1 £9,000 Sold
Blue Isetta £9,000 Sold
Red Isetta £11,000 Unsold, Reserve not Met
Pashley Pelican £2,000 Sold
Rytecraft Scootacar £4,000 Sold
All prices plus 15% Buyers Premium.
Persons spotted lurking in the crowd were the Peel Mafia, the ICR, "Peel Cars Ltd", Detzer Collection of Miami & our own Mystery Essex Collector....
Cue discussions.........
I just checked Coys site and the above are the reported hammer prices not the published results which have not yet been posted. I was actually looking to see what the Elva Courier made.
Be interesting to see what re-surfaces on the market. If the original selling target was £200k and the auction achieved some £130k after commissions, as I think several cars were not from the one collection, then excuse me for experience telling me not to believe all the sold signs placed above. There are several cars there I would not have sold at the prices achieved as I know I could place them better independently. However the bonus is it has cooled down some over enthusiastic valuing for those who might fancy something a little unusual while still offering pretty good rewards for the vision of saving stuff that hardly anyone was interested in yonks ago. Honours even then on the face of it.
I understand there were several celebs as interested buyers, be an agent or 'phone bider I guess, and a collector from Asia was present as he popped in to see me and commission a task or two to be performed.
-
Well, I did hear rumours of this one but only from you Al. Are you suggesting it could be the same car?
-
Coys auction results 14th July 2012 showing total prices payable including commission and VAT.
Make Hammer price Total payable US$ approx. Comments;
Mopetta 32,000 37,760 60,000 Non runner. Poor bodyshell.
Peel prototype 16,000 18,880 30,000 Non runner. Modern Puch moped engine fitted.
Scootacar 9,000 10,620 16,950 Tatty non runner. No chassis plate, ID or paperwork
Coronet 6,000 7,080 11,100 Runner – fair condition.
Peel Trident 30,000 35,400 56,000 Very poor condition. Many parts missing. No chassis plate.
Peel P50 21,000 not sold 24,780 39,500 Not Sold. Several parts missing.
Rytecraft 4,000 4,720 7,500 Fair overall condition.
Pashley 2,000 2,360 3,750 Non runner.
BMW Isetta 9,000 10,620 16,950 Good well restored car.
Progress 13,000 15,340 24,500 Fair condition. Paintwork poor.
KR175 8,000 9,440 15,000 Tatty non runner. Broken dome.
BMW Isetta 11,000 not sold 12,980 20,500 Very good restored car.
-
They weren't looked after properly were they? what a state they are in.
-
Most of them look no better than reasonable in the photos, perhaps when you look closer there are more problems than apparent to us here.
-
we only know the where abouts of two so thats all I'm counting! [correction, we only know the where abouts of one now since this afternoon!]
From Rumcars No 83. Page 19. Tourette Three-wheelers known to survive
TOY 534 Chassis T1025S
VLL 288 Chassis T10195
136 PMH Chassis 101785
So everyone look out for VLL 288 You could make a killing. Ha Ha. ;D
-
Last batch of photos, as so not to spoil it for the forthcoming report...
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction45.jpg)
Getting ready for the Charge of the Light Brigade.
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction70.jpg)
Dignity & Impudence...
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction66.jpg)
Just for Marcus... :-*
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction44.jpg)
My personal favourite picture of the day.
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z211/stuartcyphus/GoldsworthyAuction67.jpg)
Yes I did try after this. No I didn't get it! :'(
-
Cheers Stuart, the Rytecraft and Peel one is my favourite too! Our's and Malcolm's mutual friend is visiting us right now. Apparently he had heard some people suggesting much higher preices, but he did not believe them so hopefully this is a reasonably good result for him. He is a bit poorly at present with laryngitis, so cannot talk...and Malcolm is a man who can talk at length about almost everything!
-
Does anybody know of who got the cars ??
-
No, there is no official new owners list, I understand Coy's will not even tell the seller's who bought their cars!!!!!!!!! As all the microcars in the sale were RUM Registered, if anyone knows who now owns any of them please let Alastair know so that he can keep the records up dated. Just a name would do, an email address would be even better. Thank you Jean
-
I was actually looking to see what the Elva Courier made.
The Elva Courier went for £9500 plus buyer's premium plus VAT. It was one of my second favourites (after you know what). I saw it being loaded on a trailer right after the auction. There is confidence ...
-
Well, I did hear rumours of this one but only from you Al. Are you suggesting it could be the same car?
No suggestions as to which car but it is known to be a body and a pile of bits owned by differing factions after a failed restoration. Que violins.
-
Does anybody know of who got the cars ??
Grant confirmed that it would seem, other than those indicated, all winning bids were accepted. So my cynicism with auction results is unfounded. Makes a change, is all I can say. If you feel I am unfair then why did a Jag go through twice?
-
The story I heard was that the owner turned up at Jeans and registered the car with RUM but he was in the middle of a house move at the time, that was the last anyone heard from the chap. Just think, it could still be languishing in a shed out there unappreciated!
What about the one in Devon.
That was the same one it moved from Devon to Kent. I have a current email address for the man that did own it but he never reponds. Jean
-
I hope it managed to get all together again. Perhaps we will not know until it reappears.
-
...and here's the red Isetta which didn't sell at Coys. No comment on the Buy It Now price!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Isetta-Bubble-Car-RHD-1961-Tax-MOT-Great-Investment-Great-Fun-/230827705782?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item35be6745b6
-
Anybody know if the KR175 is still in the country?
-
...and here's the red Isetta which didn't sell at Coys. No comment on the Buy It Now price!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Isetta-Bubble-Car-RHD-1961-Tax-MOT-Great-Investment-Great-Fun-/230827705782?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item35be6745b6
Its not Thumper is it? Bob's time is expensive, you know, so £20k is a snip for his thorough efforts. Free cabbage or two, well home made sauerkraut actually, for a quick sale. That will get the Tourette bought and enough left over for a shandy or two. It all makes sense when you make it up.
-
HO Ho I wish!!
25K sound like a lot of money for an Isetta, especially for one that doesn't even have its original floor but some appear to be making this kind of money over the colonial side of the pond on a regular basis. I agree, it could be Thumper only its RHD.
-
I here tell, on good spy networking intelligence, that American TV car restorer Wayne Carini was at the Coys auction, where the 9 microcars were offered for sale, with his clipboard and crew. Do those who attended the auction wish to tell us anything?
-
Well Jimmy Saville's yellow Isetta made £22,000 a couple of days ago.
-
Thats puts two Waynes in the frame then!
I guess Wayne Carini would have been there anyway for the big cars.
-
Thats puts two Waynes in the frame then!
I guess Wayne Carini would have been there anyway for the big cars.
Wayne's World perhaps! Time will tell.
-
Forgot to say I took around 80 photos of details (lights, dashboards, door handles, etc.) on the rarer microcars at Coys before they disappear in a private collection. These may be a reference for a restorer, although of course I don't know how original all the parts were. One interesting aspect was that most cars looked fairly original and (apart from the Isettas) appeared not to have undergone recent restoration.
Too much to post on here but happy to send to interested parties.
-
I still have the original photos and negatives I took in 1975 when I came across the Jaguar Red Peel P50 in as found in my home village, in a dirt covered blue. Some with the first and original lady buyer/owner. Bought it for £10. Also have pictures and negs. of the Tourette as delivered to my home in 1976. Swapped a Panther 100 and D/A sidecar for it.
-
really do think someone should try and archive things like this for the future - Rob ;)
-
The Goldsworthy KR175 has moved on for what seems a rather good price for the buyer, less than the hammer price, after the winning bidder at the auction passed away. It joins a collection of cars in the UK.