RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Jean on August 05, 2012, 05:25:26 PM
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Unfortunately, it would seem that the original purpose of the Register of Unusual Microcars has been forgotten in this electronic age. We are not looking to discover bargins to buy or to act as a go between for other prospective buyers we just want to help As Chris pointed in another topic RUMCARS is in the business of helping people if they would only register their cars. We have a large archive of information in the form of road tests, reports and experiences from the days when these cars were being made, as well as brochures and all manner of other bits and pieces. We can also, with the permission of existing known owners introduce you to each other. This is what the Register of Unusual Microcars was started for in 1980 and now has over 1200 vehicles registered. Once a vehicle is registered it is kept on the records until we know it has been scrapped. Each successive owner should notify us but sadly many of them don't. If we don't know about you and your cars we can't help you. So what ever kind of microcar you have we may well have some of the answers to your questions, the Forum is not your only port of call. Many of the original cars that were put on the Register in the 1980's have dropped under the radar and we suspect they are resurfacing now and we may well have valuable historical information about them but if you don't let us have your details we cannot help you. Let Alastair Lauchland, who now keeps our Register, have your information so that your car can be added to it . Find out how to do this by clicking on 'About the Register' on the Home Page of www.rumcars.org. We must have as much detail about your car as possible and your name but if you prefer to withold your address and just give us an email contact so well and good.. Come and join us Jean
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Can hardly blame people for not offering up information on our cars unless the information is made publicly available. Consider for example traction engines which produce a register each year of which engines are out there, not necessarily showing the owners details.
at least then if someone spots a rotting micro they can see online if its registered or not.
The register as it stands only serves to seek out rare micros by those who compile it.
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Can hardly blame people for not offering up information on our cars unless the information is made publicly available. Consider for example traction engines which produce a register each year of which engines are out there, not necessarily showing the owners details.
at least then if someone spots a rotting micro they can see online if its registered or not.
The register as it stands only serves to seek out rare micros by those who compile it.
I am sorry Bubblenuts but I think you are missing the whole point of our existence entirely, we are certainly not seeking out rare microcars for ourselves. Over the years we have been able to help many people who have acquired vehicles that they knew nothing about with copies of road tests, brochures and even where to get spare parts because they took the trouble to ask us for the information. The more cars we have on the Register the more information we can ascertain about each make from the details successive owners give us. We have got a centralised pool of information available to anyone who seeks it.asks. I will be interested to hear what other folk have to say Do you want secrecy or mass publicity?
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I quite like the idea of a photographic on line album of cars that are on the register but I feel that if some are reluctant to register there cars now due to privicy concerns albiet unfounded, then that would make them all the more reluctent to register there cars.
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publicity for me . just a thought but i have wondered if the name being abbreviated to RUM is a good idea at all . i wonder if The Historic Microcar Club or something akin would sound a bit more interesting - i can see the objections but not sure a register sounds all that interesting - even if thats what it is :)
like your point bob and most but not all i suppose would like their car featured wouldn't they ? but no lawn mowers please
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I quite like the idea of a photographic on line album of cars that are on the register but I feel that if some are reluctant to register there cars now due to privicy concerns albiet unfounded, then that would make them all the more reluctent to register there cars.
Publicity for me too.
I would like to see an on-line folder available for each car on the register with previous owners. A master photo and another area for photos throughout the cars existence. No need to make public the current owners details.
The on-line data would only be available to Rumcars members.
Also a photo of each type of microcar ever made, achieving a searchable list of all makes and models. Perhaps a brief description of each - updated by members. (oops - no need for a new A to Z book)
Denis in France has a small version - microcarfan.com
Looks like a website job for Jonathan.
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Ignoring any other rules publishing information on other peoples vehicles is perhaps infringing data protection and certainly not what I want for my own collection. A secret is only a secret if you do not tell anyone. Part of security therefore is to not tell people what you have since they are unlikely to be motivated to attempt to nick something they do not know about.
Secondly it has now become important to protect the identity of rare and desirable vehicles from cloning. There has been discussion on the merit of replicas and fakes elsewhere on this board. One way a replica becomes a fake is to obtain genuine documentation of another vehicle and assume its identity. Dare I say this could be one reason for the 'low' values achieved by Coys for some of those cars in the auction. If I own a Peel now it has to have good documentation and provenance to quell any suggestion it is not the very original car that it is. If that information is not forthcoming then I am afraid top money will not be available from a wise investor. The microcar to suffer most here is the KR201 Roadster as it has no identifying chassis number from that of a KR200. Most Roadsters are not real and proving that a genuine one is real is extraordinarily difficult. Yet the production is less than that of Tigers and the car is most desirable and one day, as a collectors item, might eclipse undriven Tigers as a thing to own.
So RUM are between a rock and a hard place. The data is of great use but to publish it willy nilly is an offer to the unscrupulous to take full advantage of it. Clearly it therefore has to protect the car information.
The debate is what it does with this information. Certainly an offer of linking owners is good, as is pooling resource information for access to owners of types of car. Beyond that it offers a band of fellowship to owners of vehicles that can never have a club of there own. Sharing the experience and the odd page of a newsletter or website is far better than total obscurity.
Where I and others fail is that clearly the more resourceful folk tend to find out there own information irrespective of any organisation. Also those folks can often be busy, not least running there own club or business. The old adage 'if you want a job done find a busy man' was never truer. There is thus less motivation to be fully engaged in other peoples information gathering. Even more when there is an expectation of spoon feeding new owners who are not actually interested enough to even make the most basic of research efforts. I can only assume their purchase is related to expectations of future profit rather than enthusiasm of use or joy of restoration. I refer you back to previous comments and I, nor RUM, is here to research other peoples collections for its profitability. As a club it is a mutual in a world of small businesses in effect.
My own history is, of course, at odds with pure club mentality in many peoples eyes and it is a point of some contrast to find that while I still believe in real clubs, and always tried to play by those rules, most of the clubs I would like to belong to have succumbed to the effects of being small businesses with all the problems that brings when done badly. It makes me a very cynical viewer when I can see the miss use of position or information, at times by the very folk who cast stones at others for the same thing, sometimes years ago and on the flimsiest of evidence. Fortunately RUM is none profit making and sees fit to guard its information and there is ever more reason to do so, I think.
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Okay, here's my view of all of this.
First of all, I have to say Jean has sent me the only photos I have of my Nobel before I owned it, and even if there not old (1994), it's still great to have some photos, so I can thank the register for that.
Also, it's thanks to the register (I think!) that my dad found out his old Peel P50 (CKH 728B, currently in Lane museum) was a replica. The seller told my dad it was a replica. He was wrong!
I also love the idea of an online register of the cars. Maybe in the future, in the registration form, there could be a checkbox if you want your car featured on the website.
About the website? I will get to that one day ;) At the moment, I have 4 websites to do for other people (I have to save up if I want to get more projects!).
Sorry Rich, my mower is already RUM'd ;) Luckily I don;t think many non microcars are on the register !
I can understand that it can be frustrating if people don;t always register there cars on the register, but they use the register's forum! (I think my dad is guilty, not many of his cars are RUM'd!)
If I do end up making an online register, I will be needing all the help possible. If people could (nearer the time!) send me photos and finished documents, it shouldnt take too long.
JP
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What web design package do you use Jonathan?
One of the reasons people don't register their cars is not the cost but the fact that they have to fill-in a form and send off a cheque. This takes time and possibly they don't get round to it.
I noticed how easy it was to renew membership of EACC (East Anglian Cyclemotor club) - done in seconds using PayPal.
For NACC (National Auto-cycle and cyclemotor Club) you need to fill in a form and send off some money - I have only just got round to renewing on a last chance ticket wihich came with the magazine.
An on-line registration of a car with a picture and PayPal payment may be the way to go.
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What web design package do you use Jonathan?
One of the reasons people don't register their cars is not the cost but the fact that they have to fill-in a form and send off a cheque. This takes time and possibly they don't get round to it.
I noticed how easy it was to renew membership of EACC (East Anglian Cyclemotor club) - done in seconds using PayPal.
For NACC (National Auto-cycle and cyclemotor Club) you need to fill in a form and send off some money - I have only just got round to renewing on a last chance ticket wihich came with the magazine.
An on-line registration of a car with a picture and PayPal payment may be the way to go.
I guess by package you mean website builder?
I enjoy using Weebly, since its free hosting, good customer service, and unlike certain website builders, mine gives access to ALL of the code, thereby it is not a "limited" site builder.
JP
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I think a photographic folder of members cars who tick the box for publicity would be good but with no other owners history of details included , not even having details viewable to members as anyone can join the forum and gather info for dodgy purposes. I would even blank out the registration numbers. RUMcars isnt the most inspiring of names I know but it does describe exactly what it is, its not a club and caters for historic microcars that dont already have there own one make club so titles like Historic microcar org etc could be misleading in my view.
Still its all academic at this stage, if we cant even get Jonathan to face lifted the website what chance have we of a project such as this? It would have to be put in the hands of a professional and possibly have to pay them to do it. I nominate Barry!
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It would have to be put in the hands of a professional and possibly have to pay them to do it. I nominate Barry!
What to do the website or to pay someone else to do the website? Mine's a pint.
Yep, Bob's pictorial plan is workable with the numbers blocked out. There is no reason why crevices cannot be documented without relieving the specific car info. There might be occasion to define type, age etc. It such a good idea that I notice few marque clubs creating a resource file on their websites to aid those restoring cars with access to original examples by the wonders of on line imagery. (Many clubs do not even know, or record, their few remaining unrestored good cars. A huge and valuable resource, but sadly not profitable if the parts you supply are not correct and such data rather undermines profits). On that basis perhaps RUM ought to once again blaze the trail ignored by those better financed and with only a few cars or models to cover each rather than a myriad of the weird and daft in RUMcar.
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Either! Mines a cream tea please! :D
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I think a photographic folder of members cars who tick the box for publicity would be good but with no other owners history of details included , not even having details viewable to members as anyone can join the forum and gather info for dodgy purposes. I would even blank out the registration numbers. RUMcars isnt the most inspiring of names I know but it does describe exactly what it is, its not a club and caters for historic microcars that dont already have there own one make club so titles like Historic microcar org etc could be misleading in my view.
Still its all academic at this stage, if we cant even get Jonathan to face lifted the website what chance have we of a project such as this? It would have to be put in the hands of a professional and possibly have to pay them to do it. I nominate Barry!
I don't do the websites but this is the sort of thing I organise. (still under construction)
www.steptape.com
I could find out about a simple site for RUMcars with a gallery facility.
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It would have to be put in the hands of a professional and possibly have to pay them to do it. I nominate Barry!
What to do the website or to pay someone else to do the website? Mine's a pint.
Yep, Bob's pictorial plan is workable with the numbers blocked out. There is no reason why crevices cannot be documented without relieving the specific car info. There might be occasion to define type, age etc. It such a good idea that I notice few marque clubs creating a resource file on their websites to aid those restoring cars with access to original examples by the wonders of on line imagery. (Many clubs do not even know, or record, their few remaining unrestored good cars. A huge and valuable resource, but sadly not profitable if the parts you supply are not correct and such data rather undermines profits). On that basis perhaps RUM ought to once again blaze the trail ignored by those better financed and with only a few cars or models to cover each rather than a myriad of the weird and daft in RUMcar.
Worth looking at the Moped Gallery for inspiration
http://www.icenicam.ukfsn.org/gallery/galindex.html
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I'm a complete dunce at all this stuff but one thing I wouldnt like to see is us losing our forum format, try using the Yahoo base forums where you have to open each post individually, they drive you mad, our roll on thread format is the best! Maybe the answere is to add a gallery section to our existing site where folk with there cars on the register can volunterily post the pics of there cars? I dont know if this is possible, I gues Jim is the man to ask.
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Agree with you Bob.
(Battery sizes coming later this morning)
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Well, whenever I've finished these 4 sites, I could get back to the RUMcar site. We could sort out an online register for whoever wants to :)
JP
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yada yada yada johnathan :D
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yada yada yada johnathan :D
;D Patience is all thats needed ;)
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Patients? I think we have given up on you!
Mind you another user of the forum was supposed to be making a CD from footage taken at the 25th special rumcars weekend years ago! By the time we get it we will have forgotten that such a weekend ever happend! ;)
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Mind you another user of the forum was supposed to be making a CD from footage taken at the 25th special rumcars weekend years ago!
I noticed Jim's DVD came out a few years after Story so we're about on par, besides list of to do's... strip the loft, replace the floor, roof beams then panel it out and insulate, replace and level 3 ceilings, relocate the loft hatch, remove all the render upstairs, sound proof, batten and insulate both remaining bedrooms, build a wall, render the chimney breasts, have them inspected, reinstate both fireplaces, level and rebuild the kitchen bay window, replace the other kitchen window and add a concrete lintel, replace the joist level the floor and concrete under floor to stop rodents! Fit new bathroom and plaster the entire house, sand and polish all floors, decorate, oh build porch at the rear of the kitchen secure the garden and rebuild the garage... so when do you want to start then Bob!
???
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It's all about priorities I suppose.
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And patients eh
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The thing is Blob old chum, you are never going to do all that in a million years so you may as well do the DVD. ;D ;D
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I think the purpose of the Rum Car is shown perfectly by the response to the topic about the Nobel. Within days countless information and enthusiasm was given to a new member
showing a caring and knowledgeable bunch that have a love of these cars. for myself if the process of registering could be made more computer friendly it would help me register my 2 frisky sports.
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I have read with interest all the comments that have been made on this subject.
It must be realised that anything that is done to help the efficiency of RUMCARS is done on a voluntary basis and a shoe string budget. It must be said that we need more volunteers, gone are the days when the numbers were small and I could do all the jobs myself as was the case when I set up the Register in 1980. Those of you that take and read RUMCAR NEWS will see that I have a group of a few dedicated and extremely hardworking, and I suspect out of pocket enthusiasts, who help me these days. Chris, Alastair and Mike give of their time unstintingly now that anno domini is creeping up on me and limiting the amount that I can do these days. Two areas remain where assistance is desperately needed firstly with the accounts and secondly with the web site.
It is all very well to say it would be nice to do this and nice to do that but we need volunteers to do these things. Jim Janecek from America very kindly set up the web site on our behalf when our former web master had to give up at short notice. Without Jim we would not have the Forum or the PayPal facility that you all seem to love but he has not the time to maintain the body of the web site and to keep it fresh and up to date, and neither should we expect him to. We need someone who is prepared to take it on who is prepared to devote a lot of time and energy to create a new format. We also need someone else to is prepared to do at least the book keeping part of the accounts as soon as possible to help me keep on top of things.
I do appreciate that some people volunteer to do a job and then find they have bitten off more than they can chew which leaves every one unhappy. If you are truly be prepared to give of your time for nothing but the satisfaction of giving back a little something to the hobby that gives you a great deal of pleasure, please let us know, you will be welcomed with open arms. But don't bite off more than you can chew. Jean
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Without Jim we would not have the Forum or the PayPal facility that you all seem to love but he has not the time to maintain the body of the web site and to keep it fresh and up to date, and neither should we expect him to.
We need someone who is prepared to take it on who is prepared to devote a lot of time and energy to create a new format.
That scares people off.
Given the recent comments by several people regarding the difficulty in submitting and paying for Register inclusion online, I am going to update that section to make it happen.
Prior to this I have been taking a "hands off" approach to everything for a number of reasons, the primary one being that there was a time when the site appeared to have an enthusiastic person willing to migrate it to a new, simple format that would be easy to update.
If I continue to update the site and in particular, get rid of the toilet blue background that is everywhere, there is really no incentive for anyone else to do the work.
Also- my time has been extremely limited in the last year.
I think I can safely say that for most everyone here they would much rather devote "a lot of time and energy" to their cars and other elements of the hobby, not sitting in front of a computer for hours on end working out how to make things work for everyone else.
I have said it before and I say it again now: The only reason I am "in charge" of the Rumcars site is because absolutely no one stepped forward after Darren declared his term to be over.
I told him I would be willing to do it as a "last resort" only. and......the rest is history.
I did not take it over to re-do it and constantly update it and freshen it up. I did it primarily to maintain the forum and also because I really enjoy RUMCARS.
I've also been able to provide the domain name and hosting for ZERO money in the hopes that this might free up some funds to be used elsewhere.
I think RUMCARS needs to seriously consider finding some money somewhere to PAY someone to set up a new, fresh site that is easy to update and maintain.
It needs to be able to incorporate this Forum AS-IS as well. This is not difficult but it takes a bit of effort.
Volunteers have no real incentive to take on a project like this or finish it. (it is never "finished")
That being said, money alone will not guarantee that things get done.
And no, I do not want to be paid to do the website.
I think RUMCARS needs to sit down with everyone involved and discuss
Where You Are Now,
Where You Want To Be in 2 years, 5 years, etc
How It Will Be Possible.
When I was on the Board of Directors of the old Microcar & Minicar Club in the USA, I tried to get the others to have this same discussion.
No one on the Board really wanted to discuss it at length.
I never suggested any ideas that I was not personally willing to implement, but could never get any of the other "volunteers" to actually do anything.
For many years they were in "reactive" mode where all they did was put out fires because no one wanted to address the future.
Eventually they imploded, blaming me of course because I saw the writing on the wall and left.
I don't want to see that happen here.
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Spot on Jim and I recognise the position as I am in a similar one myself. The crucial thing is that it is still enough fun for it to be worth doing but I also see the putting out fires thing on a tired committee. So many organisations need new folk with new ideas to come in. There is no easy answer. There is no one answer either and sometimes I have to bite my lip as I do not feel a new idea is right but in the absence of no idea it is the best thing to do.
The mutual and non profit registers manage to continue with very little heated argument in the main as no money is involved. So discussion and debate but everyone is pointing in the same direction. Often there is a single figure about which most happens. It is money that mucks things up faster than anything else. However with the internet becoming ever more dominant I understand the desire to have a bigger and better presence on that media. Certainly for world wide contact things have never been easier. In the absence of skills for free I guess the purchase of them might be in order. How that is achieved is one thing and the second is how much information to express there.
There seem to be broadly two camps on that web based resource. The more restrictive and the full blown open access. I would dearly love the latter but I just know it will end in tears as I fear in their generosity of nature many of those supporters of free access are forgetting the nasty elements out there who would spoil something of value for their own profit. In normal times I would support a fund/charge to create the website but to be frank I am seriously under the financial cosh at the moment and have no spare money for anything. No new club memberships for instance. Though the reasons might be different than that for others I bet I am not the only one. Needs someone clever to come up with a cunning plan, Baldrick, to create a suitable fund that folk can buy into. Unless the website has paid subscribers, but is that not complicated.
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Also, it's thanks to the register (I think!) that my dad found out his old Peel P50 (CKH 728B, currently in Lane museum) was a replica. The seller told my dad it was a replica. He was wrong!
Am I assuming correctly that the seller told your Dad that it wasN'T a replica? I have had a peek under its skirts, and it looked like a new Vespa 200 engine in an old chassis to me.
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Also, it's thanks to the register (I think!) that my dad found out his old Peel P50 (CKH 728B, currently in Lane museum) was a replica. The seller told my dad it was a replica. He was wrong!
Am I assuming correctly that the seller told your Dad that it wasN'T a replica? I have had a peek under its skirts, and it looked like a new Vespa 200 engine in an old chassis to me.
Yep, Wasn't !
I think it had original type engine at the time, must have been changed. Chassis was a replica.
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johnathan i have tried reading your original item on the Peel but cannot make sense of it . is it or isn't it a replica . ???
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johnathan i have tried reading your original item on the Peel but cannot make sense of it . is it or isn't it a replica . ???
The car was a replica :)
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Funny thing was that it was displayed alongside an announced Andy Carter replica as a genuine car at the First World Micro Car Meet in Crystal Lake, Illinois in 2010- and nobody questioned its authenticity. I remembered it having a new Vespa 200 cc motor in it because I remember asking the owner how much the engine cost, as I am looking to do same for mine.
Just goes to show that it is difficult to tell new fiberglass from old, as it doesn't rust or develop any sort of patina.
The red gel coat color on my new chassis could pass as an original nearly 50 year old body if I decided to leave it bare. but this is one car that I think looks better in "as new" condition.
After all who expects to see a toned down "terrestrial flying saucer"?
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Funny thing was that it was displayed alongside an announced Andy Carter replica as a genuine car at the First World Micro Car Meet in Crystal Lake, Illinois in 2010- and nobody questioned its authenticity. I remembered it having a new Vespa 200 cc motor in it because I remember asking the owner how much the engine cost, as I am looking to do same for mine.
Just goes to show that it is difficult to tell new fiberglass from old, as it doesn't rust or develop any sort of patina.
The red gel coat color on my new chassis could pass as an original nearly 50 year old body if I decided to leave it bare. but this is one car that I think looks better in "as new" condition.
After all who expects to see a toned down "terrestrial flying saucer"?
Our one was made by Alan Evans (Bambycars), I think in the 80's.
If I'm right, the Lane museum don't really like saying its a replica ;)
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And clearly neither did the scurrilous individuals who sold the cars to them! Maybe this subject should be curtailed before someone gets upset!
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Why, Mr. Bond? It's been going on for years!
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Back to what RUM is for and taking up the scurrilous tangent.
Maybe the Register should create a Register of Known Fakes which it could publish on the website so that it will very much harder for folk to pass cars off as genuine when they are not. This can include split cars where the chassis forms one car, the body another and the engine a third. An old trick which was used to great effect with Bugatti and in common usage now. Of course one of those cars is entitled to the original ID, but which? Normally, I believe, the chassis wins.
No doubt this would cause a great deal of grumbling but it would be a public service and protect those cars left that have not been messed about to boot. For instance I have someone making persistent enquiries about my Scootacar because it has its original engine. It seems most do not. Collectors value such things. Not the best example but I do not wish to cast a stone and as far as I know I do not own a fake nor a replica at the moment so I cannot offer a current experience but if Nick can get conned then so can any of us. I can point to Messerschmitts I have created out of various parts bought in as extras, when enough parts are then collected together to form a kipper car, then through a six and win. These are non original cars but still fully Messerschmitt. To me a Messerschmitt like Black Bazzer which has always been whole, never tampered with, is very much more desirable than one of these bitsas, but if we did not have the bitsas there would be far fewer Messerschmitts about. So I do not know where you draw the line. That said there are clear attempts out there to make image of cars that either do not exist any longer, or worse, cloned from cars that do exist. It gets somewhat bizarre when the world population of a 'rare' car is greater than that original made by the factory. These fake cars, in some cases hidden among many freely admitted replicas, should be outed. I feel sorry for owners who might be left holding the baby but the situation is analogous to a stolen car. It is the risk you run buying stuff. Normally if you do your research you do not get caught out.
What think you?
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The Peel I bought from Alan Tozer was described by him to me as an original P50. After I bought it I contacted Jean and she knew the car and knew it was a replice. She had also told Alan Tozer it was a fake. I tried to return the car and get my money back, but he refused.
Talking about authentic vehicles, we should be careful with Tg500's these days. Some years ago I bought a dismantled pile of parts from Tim Collins. Most parts were genuine,but from different Tg's and with a perfect replica monocoque. I knew fully what I was buying and Tim was very honest. I restored this and sold it for £18,000 to a chap in Germany called ( can't remember his name right now, I'll publish it if I remember )stating it was a replica, hence the low price. The car looked excellent and it would have been very hard to find a fault. He then immediately sold it to a doctor for a £10,000 profit, saying it was genuine. I know this is true, because the doctor took it to the German rally and the English Tiger bunch spoke with him. This all happened in about 1999.
If the monocoque is replica, then the car is a replica. I know my own car is genuine and so is Ferdi's. but I think that's it for rumcar readers. I may be wrong though, as a member in the North of UK might have recently purchased one, but that's for him to say.
Nick.
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"This can include split cars where the chassis forms one car, the body another and the engine a third. An old trick which was used to great effect with Bugatti and in common usage now. Of course one of those cars is entitled to the original ID, but which? Normally, I believe, the chassis wins. "
And I thought it was just the antiques trade that did that!!
A chair is missing from a rare and valuable dinning table and chairs set devaluing it considerably, the restorer knocks all the chairs apart make four legs and other parts up and reassemble them mixing the new parts into all the other genuine chairs, it then looks just like genuine restoration of individual chairs over the sets life time, hey presto job done! A clock repairer takes in an extremely rare and valuable clock for servicing over a period of years, each time he misleadingly says that one of the gears was too worn and had to replace it, he tucks away the original cogg which has nothing wrong with it, eventually the customers original clock movement has all new gears and the repairer puts together an eighteenth century clock movement worth a lot of money for himself, as I said, scurrilous!!
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"This can include split cars where the chassis forms one car, the body another and the engine a third. An old trick which was used to great effect with Bugatti and in common usage now. Of course one of those cars is entitled to the original ID, but which? Normally, I believe, the chassis wins. "
And I thought it was just the antiques trade that did that!!
A chair is missing from a rare and valuable dinning table and chairs set devaluing it considerably, the restorer knocks all the chairs apart make four legs and other parts up and reassemble them mixing the new parts into all the other genuine chairs, it then looks just like genuine restoration of individual chairs over the sets life time, hey presto job done! A clock repairer takes in an extremely rare and valuable clock for servicing over a period of years, each time he misleadingly says that one of the gears was too worn and had to replace it, he tucks away the original cogg which has nothing wrong with it, eventually the customers original clock movement has all new gears and the repairer puts together an eighteenth century clock movement worth a lot of money for himself, as I said, scurrilous!!
Like some Bugatti dealers. They would say "your gearbox is wrn. If you want, we have a brand new one available". Say that about different parts, and they end up with a new original car!
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A good few years ago I offered a detailed certificate of Authenticity to owners of Friskys , which confirmed that theirs was a genuine car (based upon my records of then 20 years ) There was no charge the object being to give that car a status (an advantage when selling, and reassuring for the buyer) and identify “non original cars”. No one was interested!
Regarding the purpose of the Rumcar register, I remember it starting out catering for cars not served by their own club/register since then its base has grown considerably covering the whole spectrum of Microcars with a considerable information and history made available. However I think it is unrealistic to expect it to act as a comprehensive information center for people restoring their cars.
I know from 30 years of running the Frisky Register, with the simple aim of ensuring the survival of remaining Friskys, the effort, time and devotion it takes. To provide a similar service from one central source would be an enormous task.
I think Jean has got it right, by keeping records of those cars not covered by other single make registers she helps ensure their survival, information on the cars being of more importance than their owners. Trying to keep track of cars let alone their owners is a job and a half!
To that end my personal preference would be not to produce a “public list” of existing car details, too much info for those wishing to take advantage.
Finally I know Jean and her band of merry men (and women) don’t want praise but from my point of view they do a Bl......y good job and I thank them for it.
John
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To that end my personal preference would be not to produce a “public list” of existing car details, too much info for those wishing to take advantage.
Rumcars is basically a hub outside of the single car clubs, Jeans open days and volunteering sessions put names to faces for those who've entered the banter on the forum. Whereby the usually trading of information and discussions take place. Though unlike certain clubs, you do not need a microcar to join and there is no fee, thus encouraging a wider variety of enthusiast to pool resources. The only addition I'd like to see would be a page of known vehicles, I don't care who owns them, what country there in or how much their worth etc.. Simply Frisky X, Trojan Y and Peel ?
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Hi Mike
Having got your list of every microcar in existance
Hopefully with owner and number plate removed for security
What would you do with it??
John
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Simple, I'd like RUMCARS to have a visual resemblance to a register. I'm not talking about the definitive list of micros, just the ones documented here. The easiest way to achieve this other than having details of ownership on display, is to list numbers of surviving vehicles and possibly the country they now reside, (as this is a source of constant debate), one could highlight a new car on the list every month, a bit like a poll. There may even be an increase of owners willing to come forward if the register is seen to be constantly updated.
It's interesting, case in point, there are more now Inters then previously thought. Bruce Weiner documented numbers built/surviving, there was a recent enquiry on the forum regarding numbers of Nobel Vicky's in existence, with a poll patterns emerge, which cars survived in greater numbers, those that were unsuccessful and stored since new / or brilliant but expensive designs, the applications are endless. :o
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That could work as it is useful info whilst being pretty anonymous. Of course there is no need to prevent those who wish to go further with there own cars from doing so, in a pictorial record and sketch specs such as I think is meant here. might even resolve some incorrect info commonly held to be correct, which in fact turns out not to be so. The great thing is to continue to learn stuff you did not know. Even if they might be slightly off the core of RUM. It is always possible not to follow threads that are not of interest. The Off Topic area is a good valve for that. What remains is to find the guy who has the ability to create and manage this, another issue sadly.
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What remains is to find the guy who has the ability to create and manage this, another issue sadly.
For once Big Al you have hit the nail right on the head. All these wonderful ideas are fine but they need a dedicated volunteer with the necessary skills to carry them out. The truth is those type of people seem to be a dying breed. these day the word is 'you can't get ought for nought'! Jean
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No one has commented on my link to the moped gallery.
http://www.icenicam.ukfsn.org/gallery/galindex.html
Personally, I think a microcar version would be great to have?
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Dear Barry
I was trying to get Johnathan to do something similar on his new version of the Rumcar Web site and we reached a point where he said Weebble could not do it, so I asked what it could do and that is where it faded.
The idea was to have a matrix of years along the top and countries down the side and having clicked on the appropriate year/country box it took you to a photo index of all the vehicles available for that year, from that you click on the vehicle and there was a potted history.
A simple alphabetical index of makes is a lot simpler but loses some of the context of what was available at the time and dependent upon which country you lived in. A manufacturers index for each country would still be an enormous task as at the moment I think there are some 460 different microcars in 29 different countries. With Germany having almost 80 different makes. A huge task to index all of them. But you need an endexing system that will grow with the list as it builds.
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
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Chris, I like your idea of seeing what vehicles were available in a given year.
I can see how it gets complicated and very time consuming for one person to maintain.
I like the moped gallery because of its simplicity.
I think such a gallery need not be within the rumcars website. It could be just a link to a separate area.
One solution would be for the viewers of the gallery to be able to upload pictures themselves. This spreads the workload which would be mammoth for one person.
Obviously this could allow inaccurate information to be posted but this could also be dealt with and corrected by contributors.
I will investigate possibilities.
Barry
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I emailed Andrew at NACC (Buzzing mopeds)
It was good to get an immediate response - below.
I will have a word with my other contacts to see how we could achieve a gallery of pictures of the different cars initially then look at more detailed solutions as suggested by Chris.
Let me know (all) if you don't thing it's worth pursuing.
Barry
Barry,
I don't think I'm going to be a lot of help to you. I don't use any clever website building packages - I just write all the website code 'by hand' in XHTML. Obviously, with the Moped Gallery, all the pages are very similar so, if I want to add a page, I just copy an existing one and change the names. Similarly, to add a picture to a page I can just copy & paste, then change a few parameters.
However, if finding bodies to do it is a problem, my methods probably won't be suitable - they also need a certain amount of expertise.
The site is hosted by UKFSN (www.ukfsn.org) who are an 'old-fashioned'
ISP. We pay £15pa for 100Mb of webspace and it's up to us to do what we want with it. UKFSN doesn't supply any tools or software - in effect, they just give us a blank canvas.
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Andrew