RUMCars Forum
General Category => Off Topic Lounge => Topic started by: Barry on April 13, 2013, 06:05:33 PM
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My two IWL Troll scooters. 1964 and 1966. Ready for an MOT at last. UK Registration next...............
(Admiration of the trailer is not necessary)
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I have always secretly admired that pair! Will you keep one and ride it?
A friend drop by last week on a newly acquired 1970's vespa 50 scooter, he offered me a ride of it which I accepted. All I can say is that whatever it has had done to it, it ain't no 50cc scooter anymore!! Far too fast for a such a light, short wheel based scooter and in my view quite dangerous..
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nice sturdy trailer a little ott for the job - is it an old caravan chassis ?
actually just joking am not the slightest bit interested . love the scooters seem to be the ones featured in mike websters lovely little book
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Absolutely stunning Barry ;)
Hopefully we will get some nice weather so you can put some miles on them :)
Are spares hard to come by for them??
@Bob
Smallframe Vespa's are the best for tuning, and 'cos of the small wheelbase make for brilliant handling and cornering.
This is my SS90 rep:
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/P4220001.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/P4220001.jpg.html)
Now a 125cc water cooled beastie.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/ss90_2_012.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/ss90_2_012.jpg.html)
When set up on the dyno it was 20bhp at 68mph in third.
But not had it at that sort of speed on the road yet.
8)
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I have always secretly admired that pair! Will you keep one and ride it?
A friend drop by last week on a newly acquired 1970's vespa 50 scooter, he offered me a ride of it which I accepted. All I can say is that whatever it has had done to it, it ain't no 50cc scooter anymore!! Far too fast for a such a light, short wheel based scooter and in my view quite dangerous..
Surely a 50cc (or even 70cc) can't be that nippy Bob. I know what you mean though when the bike is so light.
The Trolls will probably have to go in the reshuffle, a shame because they ride very well. Low down 'soft' power with plenty of torque. Nice solid handling. Built like tanks. I haven't been out on the open road yet but I get the feeling they will be nice and lazy to ride - no panicking through the gears, a gentlemans machine.
However, my Lambretta scares the pants off me. It looks demure but it sucks in air with a lovely induction howl then growls and barks as it accelerates in a very antisocial manner (even when running-in) Quite unacceptable unless your ears are tuned into that type of music. It really is surprisingly fast for a scoot - the throttle is only just open at my running-in speed of 50mph.
I will keep the Lambretta. Working on the Heinkel next.
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Is your GP an original Orbit Orange Barry??
Or is it just a similar colour??
Shaun.
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I was told it was the right colour Shaun......................It was orange originally not that mustard colour.
I have never compared it next to another one.
This scan of an old photo before the restoration makes it look mustard! Typical.
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nice sturdy trailer a little ott for the job - is it an old caravan chassis ?
actually just joking am not the slightest bit interested . love the scooters seem to be the ones featured in mike websters lovely little book
I expected some admiration of the trailer which was indeed once a caravan. Another Richard carefully and painstakingly modified the caravan chassis to accept an Invacar model 70 (oops I just swore) The level of engineering is quite remarkable and many people comment on it.
If you want a similar trailer I can contact him to see if he can make another!
I don't think I have seen Mike Websters book?
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Absolutely stunning Barry ;)
Hopefully we will get some nice weather so you can put some miles on them :)
Are spares hard to come by for them??
@Bob
Smallframe Vespa's are the best for tuning, and 'cos of the small wheelbase make for brilliant handling and cornering.
This is my SS90 rep:
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/P4220001.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/P4220001.jpg.html)
Now a 125cc water cooled beastie.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/ss90_2_012.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/ss90_2_012.jpg.html)
When set up on the dyno it was 20bhp at 68mph in third.
But not had it at that sort of speed on the road yet.
8)
Spares are pretty easy from Germany as there are quite a few about still. MZ 150 engine with 9.5hp. Cooling fan only engages when the engine gets hot. Over engineered in many areas but very utilitarian.
Your 125cc Vespa is magic.
My Lambretta contact 'The Lambretta Doctor' Steve Last, had told me all about the small frame Vespa tuning potential. The carb ends up bigger than the engine. His girlfriend (I think) had a tuned one and it could easily keep pace with his Lambretta.
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sorry it wasn't mike websters excellent book -
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Its been a while since I had a German scooter, and back then spares weren't that good even from the homeland.
Especially the bacolite ignition switch for my NSU Prima D, it would have cost more than the scooter was worth :-\
Since then I stick with Italian if I can.
Your GP I take it was a 150.
I have only ever seen 1 Orbit Orange in the flesh.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/P3240003.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/P3240003.jpg.html)
I was building this as a 'rusteration'.
But my mate who owns a massive scooter collection had been after one for 20 odd years, so I gave in and sold it to him.
Only for the British market, and rarer than a rare thing.
Yours from the pic looks to be orange rather than Ochre (ginger) that the majority were painted.
Another rare British only colour is the GP200 in red,
Which I managed to find an original one last year (part of why I let the orange one go).
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/IMG_0563_zps31a99828.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/IMG_0563_zps31a99828.jpg.html)
Has yours a black plastic toolbox and petrol flap, what with it being a '71 J.
Or is it a late reg one like my red one. ??
Mine has grey lalstic toolbox, and red metal petrol flap.
Shaun.
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it was this -
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14 pages of info. but mainly stylish photo's of IWL amongst 100 pages of others
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sorry it wasn't mike websters excellent book -
I have this book somewhere.. I will have a look.
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14 pages of info. but mainly stylish photo's of IWL amongst 100 pages of others
I have this book somewhere too! I will have a look.
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Its been a while since I had a German scooter, and back then spares weren't that good even from the homeland.
Especially the bacolite ignition switch for my NSU Prima D, it would have cost more than the scooter was worth :-\
Since then I stick with Italian if I can.
Your GP I take it was a 150.
I have only ever seen 1 Orbit Orange in the flesh.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/P3240003.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/P3240003.jpg.html)
I was building this as a 'rusteration'.
But my mate who owns a massive scooter collection had been after one for 20 odd years, so I gave in and sold it to him.
Only for the British market, and rarer than a rare thing.
Yours from the pic looks to be orange rather than Ochre (ginger) that the majority were painted.
Another rare British only colour is the GP200 in red,
Which I managed to find an original one last year (part of why I let the orange one go).
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/IMG_0563_zps31a99828.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/IMG_0563_zps31a99828.jpg.html)
Has yours a black plastic toolbox and petrol flap, what with it being a '71 J.
Or is it a late reg one like my red one. ??
Mine has grey lalstic toolbox, and red metal petrol flap.
Shaun.
Looks like my one (GP150 - 1971) was orange. It belonged to my brothers Father-in-law. He was an Architect and used it in his early years for travelling around sites. He upgraded to a Morris 1000 and left the scooter in his garage. He is still about and is very happy to see it restored. It was never painted before I got it.
It has a black plastic tool box and petrol flap. The horn cover was black plastic and I will return it back to that one day.
I thought it was on of the last UK Italian Lambrettas. The red and the orange came into the UK right at the end of production I think? Grey toolbox came in before or after black?
I like your red GP - restore or leave it alone? My one was just a bit too far gone to leave.
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Wow Barry.
You seem to have stumbled across one the rarest colour Lambretta's produced.
You are right, Black followed grey.
The fact you have a plastic fuel flap with the wider hinge, means yours is the last of the last before India picked up production.
You would also most likely have had bolts in the sidecase not studs and nuts.
My red one is a '69 built but sold and reg: in '71 so I have grey plastic and the metal flap etc, with studs.
I am leaving as is, I changed the piston rings, clutch, points, condensor and coil.
Runs like new, lush to ride and a joy to own.
I last month turned down £7000 for it, there is no chance of ever replacing it, so it is staying.
The SS90 rep is a monster like your new kit, I do struggle to keep the front wheel down in 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and haven't had the nerve to open it up in 4th yet :D
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Thats nice to know Shaun.
I have the original engine in tact but with 12v electronic ignition. I still have the original stator and flywheel.
I was going to rebuild, tune up and fit my TV200 engine but it was better to leave that engine original.
In the end I found an Li 150 engine and added the GT186 kit etc. Only a 25mm carb at the moment because I wanted it to breath on the correct side (kept the battery tray).
30mm manifold breathing on the correct side is being developed.
running a full circle race crank and TV175 gears. The clubman exhaust gives power lower down the revs but peaks at about 7,000rpm so no point in taller gears (more teeth on the primary).
Anyway, I want to be able to use 4th at 30mph.
Once it is run-in I will look at an expansion chamber, 30mm carb and changing the primary gearing to match max bhp at about 7500 to 8000rpm.
But, as you know it becomes much harder to ride and enjoy with only four gears and a narrow powerband further up the revs.
At the rate I am going it will probably take a couple of years to run-in anyway!
My front wheel doesn't come up because I weigh too much!
Not worth selling these last Italian built Lambrettas. You just can't replace them and they are a joy to own and ride.
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(http://i77.servimg.com/u/f77/11/44/77/74/dsc_9510.jpg)
yes i love them too ....^^
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Looks like your gonna need a bigger barn Jean-do
It's good to see that others also have the same illness!
Lovely
Would be great to see a list of what you have so that we know what is missing.
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the question is: would it be faster and easiest to write the actual list than the missing scooters list ....... ^^
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@Barry, fully agree.
keep the Italian stuff, more useble with a brilliant local spares back up and all the tuning bits you could want ;D
@Jean-do, Wow.
That is an impressive collection :o
I spotted a nice smallframe, early square badge, and a couple of what look like Lambretta LD's.
The fully accessorised one in the middle, is it a 'Mayfair' or 'Riviera' by any chance??
Or is the yellow headlamp telling its a French LD??
Shaun.
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Lambretta passed it's MOT yesterday. Only 101miles since last year so it should do I suppose! should have it run-in by the time I retire.
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How's this for a scooter!
http://www.bikeexif.com/art-deco-custom-motorcycle
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for shaun, and others, from left to right ...
cezeta, heinkel, piatti, scootavia,babymoto, agf, lefol, simard ,babymoto, manurhin, jonghi, mercier, raider, monet goyon,
in the far away, mini ld racing, scoto, velostyle, ardent ,
then alcyon, speed, puch, motobecane 57 ...55...53 peugeot s 57c; s55 , bernardet y 52 .. bm 250 .. c50...a48 ... v5sa , vespa 1952 ..
in the middle french ld 57 and missing ld 56 ...
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How's this for a scooter!
http://www.bikeexif.com/art-deco-custom-motorcycle
Brutsch Mopetta gets aggressive. Also there is nothing new in vehicles after 1914, or some such saying.
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for shaun, and others, from left to right ...
cezeta, heinkel, piatti, scootavia,babymoto, agf, lefol, simard ,babymoto, manurhin, jonghi, mercier, raider, monet goyon,
in the far away, mini ld racing, scoto, velostyle, ardent ,
then alcyon, speed, puch, motobecane 57 ...55...53 peugeot s 57c; s55 , bernardet y 52 .. bm 250 .. c50...a48 ... v5sa , vespa 1952 ..
in the middle french ld 57 and missing ld 56 ...
A satisfying collection with some real rare and unusually styled machines. It is as much the interest, even art, of some designs that make them desirable over riding them. Then what can be better than art you can drive?
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Back to the beginning - both Troll scooters passed their MOTs today.
I can recommend the guys at Washbrook motorcycles near Copdock
http://www.washbrookmotorcycles.co.uk/
They are on the old A12 near Ipswich. The old dual carriageway is now a deserted country road. Loads of British motorcycles.
One of the guys remembers his first week in his new job as a trainee mechanic (aged 15) The garage had been a Heinkel agent and he had to help to clear out and scrap all of the heinkel spares including bodies. Thousands of spares he said.
Next I need some UK registration numbers.
I have German papers from the glove box but the scooters have changed hands in England long before I got them.
They have been in the country for quite a few years.
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Well done Barry. Now what are you going to do with them?
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That depends.........
Just building some new sheds so that I can clear the garage and turn it into living accommodation.
Will the sheds hold all of my toys? Not for long!
Talking about sheds - For Al perhaps:-
I was in Framlingham and there in the Estate agents window £15,000. A massive timber barn (not old) for sale. You just have to dismantle it and take it away!
Also a big complex of workshops to let - £2500 per annum.
http://www.akermans.co.uk/Commercial.aspx
Akermans website is not updated so they would need to be called.
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now thats not right ! changing sheds to living accomadation - wrong way around :) easy whilst her indoors isn't listening ;) all good fun - as al says spring is in the air and sleeping projects are stirring :)
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Taking Trolls shedding could be dangerous. They might find some shed Trolls or something under the timber barn. Sounds like an interesting opportunity for someone though.
Living in a converted shed is fine as long as you have room to make better and more useful shedding as a by product. I assume you are using the join the dots scattered shed plan discussed ealier where in time it really does make sense to link them together into a more hermoginous whole.
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You are reading my mind Al. Two sheds are going up and each is 30m square internal (max for no planning permission) The space between the two sheds is at least 40m square.................. watch this space.
Did you know that you can cover 1/2 your garden with sheds as long as each one is less than 30m sq.
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Just found this photo of my old scooter from my teenage years. Note dads old Regal in the background, I remember us spraying it " Harvest Gold", with a vacuum cleaner attachment!
Who can identify the Scooter?
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I know, I know....It's 373 PHK Nice
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Great scooter the Durkopp Diana.
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Spot on Robadob! Electric start, foot gear change. The only scooter I would want the second time around.
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Thanks for the sharpened up photo Barry I have lifted it for my album.
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Anytime Bob - I enjoy tweaking the photos a bit.
The higher res the scan is, the better the final result.
The fashion for using textured photo paper in the 1970's really does cause problems.
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Nice Durkopp Bob,
I've had one or two in the past. You can't beat the German scooters for build quality. Most are 12 volt with electric start and bullet proof. The Heinkel Tourist club members clock up an amazing miileage with their 50+ year old machines. Nick.
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You are reading my mind Al. Two sheds are going up and each is 30m square internal (max for no planning permission) The space between the two sheds is at least 40m square.................. watch this space.
Did you know that you can cover 1/2 your garden with sheds as long as each one is less than 30m sq.
There must be a time delay on the link building. Or is this on the basis of it being open sided so not classed as a building but as a shelter or something. I plan to use this strategy should noises be negative prior to applications on sorting out the bungalow itself. One can do without BR and co being about and it costs money. Ideally I want the complex to form two sides of a square when complete.
Moving work now in motion, core is a bore.
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The first two shed will be built first and are clearly 7.6 m apart. I will take a picture for Building Regs if ever they want to see it...
The sheds will be made in sections / panels so that they can theoretically be relocated - mobile........
The joining section will be built soon after and will be fixed to the outer sheds. Open front but closed back. If there is a problem the back panels of the joining section can be removed for a couple of weeks.
If there is trouble with the joining piece generally it can be reconstructed as two separate areas each under 30 m2. They only need to be about an inch apart to be separate structures.
Easy to fill-in the 1 inch gap in the roof at any time............
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The open front makes a difference to status. The key thing is to be sure the clipboards have finished other activities and really there is little for anyone to see unless you have a real nosey type locally. Oh, they are about. Guy took a picture of a farmer and associate doing something to a tree using a front bucket of a tractor as a scaffold. Sent it in anon. Guy was nicked on H&S grounds and done for £10k.
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aaaaaahahahahhhhh ... a diana durkopp ..... *;*
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A couple of pals and I went on a VMCC autocycle run yesterday up in sunny Hertfordshire, its called the Nasty run on account of the route running through a tiny village called Nasty! But nasty it was not, in fact most enjoyable, anyway, I'm putting this on the scooter thread because one of my pals rode his Vespa 50, he only acquired it a couple of weeks ago from Italy, its been resprayed crudely but goes very fast, my guess is that it has some performance kit on it maybe a 90cc barrel of something, what gave us all a great laugh was whilst he was showing off and scaring all the cycle motor riders the engine cover side panel came flying off, not once but twice and then later the head light bezel fell off! Are vespa's all made like lego or has this one not been put back together correctly? The side panel seems a very poor fit indeed. He gave up with it in the end and wore it under his jacket like a breast plate! Cheesy Are these square headlight bezels hard to replace?
http://www.icenicam.ukfsn.org/eventsg/130428.html
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Yes, those small frame 50cc Vespas can go a bit if you want them to.
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Yes, those small frame 50cc Vespas can go a bit if you want them to.
Mental Barrie ;D
The scooter, not you.
This is a pic of one of my other smallframes, ET3, doing a steady 60+ up the M5 today.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/Shaun_079/IMG_0731_zps46675362.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/Shaun_079/media/IMG_0731_zps46675362.jpg.html)
:(
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Does the engine cover come flying off at that speed? My pals one only take 25mph to scatter debis over the road! :D
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I have had two girlfriends called Debbie. I do not recall them spontaneously falling in the road but they were neither that bright so you could be into something here. Denise (Denfold) on the other hand was made for Microcars as she was about 4ft 9in and pretty slight. She never fell out or off anything. Go for Dens not Debs? Engine covers are for ponces anyway, hype, swagger.
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Does the engine cover come flying off at that speed? My pals one only take 25mph to scatter debis over the road! :D
I lost the engine cover last weds :'(
Somwhere on a 60 mile rideout, and no one saw it go :-\
They are a poor design the smallframe ones.
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Oh dear, its catching! :D :D. My friend Steves one is a small frame model and when I had a good look at it after the run it was a very poor fit indeed. I just assumed it had been crashed and repaired or something but now you mention yours is the same they must have been made like it. That must be the reason I like Diana's!
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Oh dear, its catching! :D :D. My friend Steves one is a small frame model and when I had a good look at it after the run it was a very poor fit indeed. I just assumed it had been crashed and repaired or something but now you mention yours is the same they must have been made like it. That must be the reason I like Diana's!
Diana's are very well engineered scooters.
Vespa and Lambretta were a mass produced throw away shopping moped.
But the scooter scene is based mainly around the latter.
Most of my other smallframes have well fitting panels (new bushes and rubbers ) to keep a tight fit.
But the new tuned engine, and cut panel for the rear facing exposed carb was too much for this one :-\
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Sheds are now coming along................Not much to do with scooters but I did mention it earlier in the thread.
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WOW :o
That is lush.
I will keep checking in for updates ;)
Enough room in there for a bambox or two :-\
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Just a thought - if you put doors on each end there would never be anything at the back that you couldn't get to.
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Update.
Scooter sheds nearly finished. Just a bit of fine detail left to do.
I did consider double doors on the sides but it would have spoiled the design. It's prertty easy to move things around inside.
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If this is a thread to show off our German scooters, does this one qualify?
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/groovydubber/krausepicollotrumpf_zpsadce4a51.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/groovydubber/media/krausepicollotrumpf_zpsadce4a51.jpg.html)
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I would love to have one of these but I think it would be better in the Invalid Carriage section. ("what are sheds doing in the scooter thread" I hear you say - well they are definitely off-topic)
I like Invalid carriages and I like scooters so it doesn't get much better than your picture. It should be nicely tucked-up in my shed don't you think?
50cc? a bit under powered?