RUMCars Forum
General Category => Microcar Events => Topic started by: richard on May 23, 2013, 04:14:49 PM
-
this weekend at the national watersports centre , nottingham . as always looking forward to it .
-
just returned , with other duties to attend to monday , from The Bond National Rally . met up with many friends old and new including Andy Carter , Grant , Jim and RustyChrome of this parish :) Fantastic weather , after several years of almost invariably wet rallys what a difference it makes with unending sunshine . A VERY NICE WEEKEND :) :) :) unfortunately jim , rustychrome and myself all with just Bond projects and no cars yet and andy having sold his two - roll on next year :)
-
Glad you had a good time Richard. Andy and family were at the Boston rally on Saturday in the Renault powered Tiger plus the Kliensniggerer rep. They must have covered some ground this weekend!
-
yep but andy's home is nottingham , i presume not far from where we were
-
A great rally and wonderful to meet so many enthusiasts. I wonder if the lovely looking and newly restored Mk D Tourer that was there will start a trend in polychromatic paintwork. I'll post a picture a bit later.
-
Ooh eck! I await the first 4 pot Minicar and rear wing with trepidation. Bring back the orange and black fluffy Isetta, all is forgiven, Martin Surggeson!
-
yes rustychrome it was wasn't it ! funnily enough it didn't win a prize i dont think . mine will be the polychromatic green as opposed to this blue , as mine was originally . oddly Bond colours at that stage were polychromatic ( similar to metallic ) for the standard cars and flat colours for the deluxe - odd innit .
-
Polychromatic Bond as promised
-
Oh that's alright. I thought you meant some disgusting spilt Vimto colour with added oil effect that seems popular on enormous willy sports cars and modified Euroboxes. Early Schmits came in several versions of pre-metallic paint including Aerosilver, which is analogous to this Bond finish. The problem with the Schmitt finish was the paint was brittle and chipped off. Despite all the Schmitts left those colours are extraordinarily rare. I must admit I was a bit worried that Bonders had lost the plot, of all people.
-
i believe this is the messerschmitt colour as it is a very close match to the original bond colour
-
Whats the difference between a MkC and MkD?
Whats the difference between a MkA and a MkB?
-
Not an expert but A no suspension at rear so slim mudguards rakish slope to rear panel . B sliding pillar suspension , no shocks , so deeper mudguards. Also more upright rear panel giving more luggage room behind front seat. C/D same shell as each other but C 6volt and pullstart and D 12 v and starter motor . Different grills etc. But interim models. Have I got that right ?
-
Nice pics rustychrome did you take any of nick manders award winning bronze OCG 7 Bond C I think
-
Trying to sort my photos out and the C & D look mixed up.
The back wings (mud guards) have a detail line on one but not the other.
The front grill might be the same on both but I also have a picture with a different grill.
(C on the left of the three has a different grill?)
Bond
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ao7dnotn45wfm9o/a0QHUXIoie/Bond
All
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ao7dnotn45wfm9o/eDRKSQP4FD
-
Well the three pics you posted are all D except the the cars by the lake - extreme left is nicks lovely OCG 7 mark C with C grill
-
Not an expert but A no suspension at rear so slim mudguards rakish slope to rear panel . B sliding pillar suspension , no shocks , so deeper mudguards. Also more upright rear panel giving more luggage room behind front seat. C/D same shell as each other but C 6volt and pullstart and D 12 v and starter motor . Different grills etc. But interim models. Have I got that right ?
A, cable and bobbin steering, plastic screen, tiddly engine. Phased out to B.
Did not the C have a different front yolk to the D. C could have electric start by Heath Robinson. Also could have de lux package of bumpers etc. The butterfly grill got lost somewhere. There will be numerous detail alterations.
I know little about Bonds so await an expert.
-
Yeh, did not some have a starter motor bolted to the cylinder head with a fan belt the to flywheel operated by lowereing or raising it with a cable, as Al says, one of Mr Heath Robinsons finest? Also I think the mk D had larger rubber in torsion units for the rear suspension with more fixing bolt holes. Also MkC has Villiers 8E and D has 9E?
-
I was thinking more visual for barry sorting photo's I guess. Plastic screens and bobbins almost all converted. Through Bonds series of update mods. Factory A's were very early on offerred with the deluxe glass screen and rack as B's . So only sure clue is the back panel angle and depth of wheelarches
-
MY C is a deluxe and they did indeed have a starter motor bolted to the head. The yolk is different and the deluxe models had the more heavy duty 6V battery in the boot area.
-
I think all mine were bobbin jobs. From deep storage where word of Sharp practice never reached, I guess. Might be right about the one from MacIntyre's though. Coo, if had that lot now they'ed be round like moths to a candle.
-
MY C is a deluxe and they did indeed have a starter motor bolted to the head. The yolk is different and the deluxe models had the more heavy duty 6V battery in the boot area.
Now the standard would be marketed as the Sports model with all that extra weight on the de lux. Spend more, get less, its a clever trick if you ca do it.
-
IIRC the flexitor units on a C have six bolts and those on a D have eight. Bodily, they are identical apart from the bonnet and grille.
-
Well the three pics you posted are all D except the the cars by the lake - extreme right is nicks lovely OCG 7 mark C with C grill
That's confused me? Assume you mean the one on the far left is a D with a C grill?
Its the back wings that also confuse me. The D seems to have plain back wings or ones with a crease detail?
-
I was thinking more visual for barry sorting photo's I guess. Plastic screens and bobbins almost all converted. Through Bonds series of update mods. Factory A's were very early on offerred with the deluxe glass screen and rack as B's . So only sure clue is the back panel angle and depth of wheelarches
You are right Richard. There seems to be confusion about the visual features between C & D - grill and rear wings.
Any obvious visual differences between A and B???
-
woah barry . go right back to my first reply - there you have the differences in a nutshell . no confusion
On C's and D's it's the grill , the rear wings did change but again there are transition periods . other wing changes have more to do with whether it was a Tourer or Family model - but dont go down that one ;)
I told you the difference between A and B already - angle of rear panel and depth of rear mudguard - the early cars were regularly updated by owners so those are the only sure things.
Of course a model will have been updated but if you see a perspex screened Bond it will be an A, but a glass screened could be a deluxe A , an updated A or a B
CLEAR AS MUD ;D
-
The differences between the Mk C and the Mk D are chiefly mechanical rather than visual, so unless you know the car or unless it's an early Mk C with the different grill, you generally can't tell one from the other in the usual front or rear 3/4 photo. Rear wings are a different style between the Tourer and the Family (fibreglass ones have the "detail line"), but not between Mk D's and later C's. The Family is quite a bit different, but you can't really see it in those two pictures taken from the front. Every Mk D I've seen so far seems to have very slight differences to the next, though I'm not sure if this is down to repairs/restoration or the progressive development that Bond indulged in with all of it's Minicars. The more significant mechanical differences are detailed on the Bond Club website http://www.bondownersclub.co.uk/ (http://www.bondownersclub.co.uk/).
The A's and the B's do look quite different if you look at the back, but the wider/deeper mudguards aren't always that obvious in front 3/4 views. Again, mechanically there were lots of changes. As Richard said, clear as mud!
Here's some more pics from the rally.
-
More pics. Here you can see very clearly the differences between a Mk C Tourer and a Mk D Tourer. The last pic is from the 68 mile run (there & back) on Saturday out to Harlaxton Manor. They'd allowed an hour and half for breakdowns and for the first time nobody had one so it was still shut when we arrived. As well as the Bonds we were joined by a Nobel and Schmit and another four Bonds turned up on the Sunday.
-
now rustychrome ( time we all changed to real names ) you have me there . surely the two photo's both show the same type of car , are they not both D Tourers ? did you post the wrong pic ?
-
All very confusing add to the 'B' that the minitruck has a straight back, although not many of these about but looks the same from the front. Are the A and B the same body size
Must go next year looks a good turnout
-
the club leaflet " know your Bond " says that the Mark A is "considerably smaller than the later cars" - it may be behind the seat but i have long suspected that the A , B , C and D share the same passenger footprint . the steep rake on the A and the different back panels re tourers/family,van ,truck etc. make the cars feel a different size and the C/D front wings give a different impression though.
-
now rustychrome ( time we all changed to real names ) you have me there . surely the two photo's both show the same type of car , are they not both D Tourers ? did you post the wrong pic ?
They do look to be both Mk D Tourers but JTK277 is actually a very late MkC Tourer. These were fitted with the MkD grill and were built at the time when the Mk D was coming into production. I came very close to owning JTK some years ago but it turned out to be a 6V 8E engined MkC with hardtop and not a 12v 9E MkD soft top that I wanted. To further confuse things it has now been upgraded to MkD spec with a 12v later engine and tourer hood and frame.
Just avoid all Bonds ;)
-
Cannot avoid bonds there great and a jolly sight cheaper than all the overpriced stuff but I fear not for long
-
Just to keep the kettle boiling are there not metal and GRP rear wings for C/D?
-
Yes, the MkC had aluminium or fibreglass rear wings. Also there were a small number of MkCs fitted with steel bonnets and MkDs with fibreglass due to aluminium shortages at the time. A fibreglass bonnet is so heavy compared to a ali one :o.
-
some C's even had steel arches - muddier than mud ;)
a bit odd that the article intended to keep things mud free seems to be muddying the topic :)
-
Ah. I had one with GRP bonnet and assumed it was a replacement. This is the car that had a huge Bond Club badge painted inside. It was gold I think.
-
The differences between the Mk C and the Mk D are chiefly mechanical rather than visual, so unless you know the car or unless it's an early Mk C with the different grill, you generally can't tell one from the other in the usual front or rear 3/4 photo. Rear wings are a different style between the Tourer and the Family (fibreglass ones have the "detail line"), but not between Mk D's and later C's. The Family is quite a bit different, but you can't really see it in those two pictures taken from the front. Every Mk D I've seen so far seems to have very slight differences to the next, though I'm not sure if this is down to repairs/restoration or the progressive development that Bond indulged in with all of it's Minicars. The more significant mechanical differences are detailed on the Bond Club website http://www.bondownersclub.co.uk/ (http://www.bondownersclub.co.uk/).
The A's and the B's do look quite different if you look at the back, but the wider/deeper mudguards aren't always that obvious in front 3/4 views. Again, mechanically there were lots of changes. As Richard said, clear as mud!
Here's some more pics from the rally.
Thanks Rusty. It's becoming much clearer.
-
well he only confused me ! rusty posted a pic saying it clearly showed the difference between a C and a D - they appeared identical to me . what did you see that i didn't barry ? is it me ? confused as i thought i knew the difference , pictorially anyway
-
Thought I`d add a few pics of Rally sorry can`t add much to discution I just like the Bond in any shape or size.(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa195/Charlesdegall/46_zpseb6a0ddc.jpg) http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa195/Charlesdegall/40_zps3920b72f.jpg(http://)(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa195/Charlesdegall/44_zpsd5e21363.jpg[img])http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa195/Charlesdegall/39_zps3af931cd.jpg[/img]
-
Great to make many new friends at Nottingham realy enjoyed the Rally and company good to put a face to those I know on here namely Malcolm and Richard who made me feel realy welcome.
-
Jim is that you B wish mine looked like that
-
well he only confused me ! rusty posted a pic saying it clearly showed the difference between a C and a D - they appeared identical to me . what did you see that i didn't barry ? is it me ? confused as i thought i knew the difference , pictorially anyway
Sorry Richard, I didn't mean to confuse, only being ironic - I knew from a previous encounter that JTK 277 was a Mk C and WAC 651 was a Mk D and I just wanted to illustrate that it can be impossible to tell which is which from a photo.
Here's a picture of a Mk A from a previous Bath rally and a Mk B from last years Bond National. You can just see that the B (MYL 461) is extended behind the rear wheel arch and that the mudguards are slightly deeper in section.
Great pictures Jim!
-
When was the gold Mk D, SGA 760 photographed? It seems the DVLA has that number registered on a Mercedes-Benz! :o
-
It was a picture I took at the 1984 National Microcar Rally
-
Rusty you are a very naughty boy ! : loving these pics but out of them all I rather like that neglected red B. At the end - strange that I don't remember it nor do I remember a clear second to take a photo it was AWFUL last year
-
neglected red B.
It was parked to one side for much of the time, but joined the line-up just before the concours judging. Clive Steggel had bought it just before the rally and spent most of the day trying to get it to run. Later on he and several others managed to get it going, but it had no brakes and because the electrics were dodgy. Clive couldn't turn it off either so he spent about half an hour driving round and round hoping it was going to run out of petrol. There's a video of it here.
http://youtu.be/rEkgI-ZLkRc (http://youtu.be/rEkgI-ZLkRc)
There was an informative sign with it made by the previous owner Dafydd Williams that adds a bit more about the differences between A's and B's.
-
i must have left a while before that in the torrential rain mid morning . it looks great fun and has wet my appetite ! of course the title of the youtube clip will be incorrect . Standard Mark A's were 122cc , most production ,and as far as i know ALL B's, were 197cc . so this B would in fact be 197cc . great fun . anyone thiking that Bonds were at all sluggish or boring would have their minds changed should they see the silly games at the Bond National - other clubs would envy it all !
-
rusty chrome you have some great pics. of Bonds on your Flikr photostream could you post the pics of the polychromatic blue A, or B was it , at stafford 2010 ?
-
thanks Richard, unfortunately I wasn't at the Stafford event. Here's one of a Mk B I took back in the 80s.
-
Thanks that's the one I was after - didn't realise it was so old . 1985 it says in the windscreen
-
It's nice to see little ERN
-
But you can't see his short fat hairy legs - or the story wot he wrote . Who owns little ERN now ? The number rings a bell