RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Bob Purton on June 20, 2013, 01:51:23 PM
-
Who knows about microcar electrics, specifically harness building? I'm making up my own harness but need some guide lines as to the right thickness wire to use for the various applications. For instrance ,I know that the power feed positive from the battery to the ignition switch is always much thicker then the others, what amp wire is that ? Also what amp wire to power headlights etc etc?? All help much appreciated.
-
Will this help?
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/66/category/11
-
May be too obvious -but simply observing the gauge of wires used for the purposes that you are after, that are utilized by manufacturers w/o a reputation for faulty electrics may be all that is required.
Now to a problem of greater difficulty:
I still need a wiring diagram/ a picture of the driver's side below dashboard wiring for my 1974 All Cars Charly/Snuggy.
I have attached a photo of the area in question showing some wiring scraps that had contact adhesive residue on them that is evidence that they may have resided between the blue floorboard and the overlying carpet that I removed.
Got any polite and useful suggestions?
P.S. You can see the incredibly mysterious and awkwardly placed diagonally orientated sliding pedal in this photo!
-
Will this help?
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/66/category/11
Now that is a great answer!
-
steven you have just outrageously hijacked bobs topic . don't you already have a thread running on your snuggy wiring diagram ?
bob i am tonight faced with very similar questions as yourself . everytime i ask anyone it soon gets a little over my head , i do have some info but not to hand i will look later tonight . my wife will have to put up with me reading yet another mucky book in bed ;) info tomorrow night
-
You took the words right out of my mouth!
Look forward to hearing what you discovered in said mucky book!!
-
I think I found the answers on the vehicle wiring web site .
as follows
11amp.
Typical applications. Side & tail lights, alarms, reversing & rear fog lamps,
electric aerial, horns general wiring.
.
16.5amp.
Typical applications. Side & tail lights, alarms, reversing & rear fog lamps,
electric aerial, horns general wiring.
25amp.
Headlamps, fog & driving lamps,
rear screen heater, windscreen wiper motor.
33amp.
Typical applications. Charging cable for battery feed and ammeter.
.
-
steven you have just outrageously hijacked bobs topic . don't you already have a thread running on your snuggy wiring diagram ?
EVIDENTLY NOT. I have not gotten a single responce in more than five days since I posted my request for help with my car's wiring harness.
Bob's question had already been essentially answered by both my humbly stated suggestion, and the very precicely oriented link that preceeded it.
I was literally inside my Snuggy getting nowhere with my wiring loom problem when my smart phone informed me of Bob's request for help with his wiring loom. I immediately did something that no one has done for me yet on this issue- responded with a helpful suggestion.
I am still waiting for someone to grant me the same courtesy.
I am sorry to see that neither you nor Bob appreciate my situation enough to bother to try to help me the way that I try to help others in this group.
I am truly stuck with a need for information that undoubtedly someone in this group has a better idea than myself of how to obtain
-
The only Snuggy over here I am aware of is Gerry Starling's now. Its another car we did not have though they were close over the water. I confess to knowing nothing about them at all. All getting a bit modern for a fellow stuck in the '50's. Wiring? you were lucky. We used to 'ave magneto on t'string and Champion up our duff!
I do not know how they rate wiring. Clearly fuses are set to fail at the value of current given. So cribbing various wiring diagrams that are to all intents and purposes similar to the new wiring loom should provide the fuse values of the circuits. It is then a case of applying a % above that minimum so that the wirings is suitably robust and it is always the fuse that sacrifices itself if there is a problem. Much as suggested by Steven.
For lighting most units have the max or recommended power inscribed on them. A calculation can be made as to the loading and since 8 hole fuse boxes are cheap I would use one and have a slightly more complex loom than running slightly higher loads.
The heaviest wire outside the dynostart/starter will be the ignition feed as much of the fuse box will work off that. If fused I believe they are normally 30 amp. That would suggest a run of 50 amp wire from regulator live to the ignition switch. That could be to heavy, I do not know.
Hope that helps.
-
Thanks Al. I plan on using a Schmitt fuse box although many microcars had few if any fuses at all. My Inter has none, and Thumper has just two as I recall. I do plan to adapt a circuit from lay outs I already have such as Bond Minicar etc and as Steve suggested, calipering off some wires from the Isetta will give me a good idea anyway.
-
mostly helpful but can be conflicting info. i have this from AUTOSPARKS catalogue
am i correct that 12v headlamp wiring , for the same watt bulb , would be much thinner wire i.e. less strands , than 6v - in my complete ignorance i would have thought the other way around - worth checking it out then
-
i have this old wiring harness from a Gordon , at a glance i thought thats simple they all look the same . NOT SO ! despite looking similar i have peeled back a red/blue and found it 28/0.30 and the green and found that to be 14/0.30 ! i am checking them all out and will report back later on which are what bob
-
mostly helpful but can be conflicting info. i have this from AUTOSPARKS catalogue
am i correct that 12v headlamp wiring , for the same watt bulb , would be much thinner wire i.e. less strands , than 6v - in my complete ignorance i would have thought the other way around - worth checking it out then
Well that there illustration is pretty much the answer. Worth saving that.
-
this is the Bond Mk A terminal block incorporating 1 fuse - the Gordon had none. A nice bit of " englishness " bob. unfortunately no wiring attached
-
I'm con-fused
B a r r y
-
expand - barry
:D :D :D
-
i meant wi-re you confused :)
bob it appears that the wires for headlamps and from generator to terminal, terminal to switch and battery to terminal are all 28 / 0.30 cable and the others are 14 /0.30 and that is how cable is sold . if i were you i would take them up on buying cable from AUTO SPARKS Birmingham , make up the harness and then if you wish return your new harness to them to braid up as original at so much a foot - surprisingly little actually .
-
If this is for a GRP car it is worth running a set of earth wires in the loom. One of the issues with kit cars using existing loom wiring was earthing. My solution was to run a flat heavy duty copper strap from for to aft and engine then bring things to it. It made fault solving and modification a lot simpler as there was always an earth nearby. That would now be expensive. It solved issues on my Mini Marcos and many later weird monstrosities with half or no chassis or aluminum bits which would corrode if linked to a circuit.
Cars without fuses, or adequate fuses. Certainly this was popular and ran on late in Britain. Another reason why German cars were better as the had more fused circuits and if the worst came to the worst you could iscolate the duff sub part of a circuit, wire the rest in somewhere else and get home in relative safety. With two or less fuses that starts getting impossible. Also the chances of fire are greater. I have had Isetta, Frogeyed Sprit and TR7 spontaneously combust from a loom fault on unfused or inadequately run wiring. The Heinkel was a failed Siba regulator, which should not even have been there - British quality again, and the Lloyd Bus, a blow back through the carb to a total loss.
So no fuses, do not run an earth wire in the loom as you are offering an overheated wire a short circuit once the insulations failed and then you cannot always turn it of. The same will happen if it finds a lighting wire or something but normally its not a direct short but through a lamp or something which limits damage a bit.
Have we all had a welded car which had a melted loom. Put the wipers on and the left indactor joined or some such. Yep, been there. Schmitts are good for that where the tube wire has been compromised.
-
If this is for a GRP car it is worth running a set of earth wires in the loom. One of the issues with kit cars using existing loom wiring was earthing. My solution was to run a flat heavy duty copper strap from for to aft and engine then bring things to it. It made fault solving and modification a lot simpler as there was always an earth nearby. That would now be expensive. It solved issues on my Mini Marcos and many later weird monstrosities with half or no chassis or aluminum bits which would corrode if linked to a circuit.
Cars without fuses, or adequate fuses. Certainly this was popular and ran on late in Britain. Another reason why German cars were better as the had more fused circuits and if the worst came to the worst you could isolate the duff sub part of a circuit, wire the rest in somewhere else and get home in relative safety. With two or less fuses that starts getting impossible. Also the chances of fire are greater. I have had Lisetta, Frogeyed Sprit and TR7 spontaneously combust from a loom fault on unfused or inadequately run wiring. The Heinkel was a failed Siba regulator, which should not even have been there - British quality again, and the Lloyd Bus, a blow back through the carb to a total loss.
So no fuses, do not run an earth wire in the loom as you are offering an overheated wire a short circuit once the insulations failed and then you cannot always turn it of. The same will happen if it finds a lighting wire or something but normally its not a direct short but through a lamp or something which limits damage a bit.
Have we all had a welded car which had a melted loom. Put the wipers on and the left indactor joined or some such. Yep, been there. Schmitts are good for that where the tube wire has been compromised.
Yep, good idea about the earth cable, I am going to incorperate a schmitt fuse box to protect as much as I can. Re spontaneous combustion of British cars, I have owned many, I was one of the chumps that bought new BL cars during the 80's to support British industry hoping things would improve and they did a great deal but all too late thanks to motoring journalists, Big Al, Jeremy Clarkson and the British occupation of slagging off everything we make and do. None of the cars ever burst into flames, not even the reliants that my dad owned all his life. Re Isettas, are you sure you didnt do anything as irresponsible as sit in the seat and short out the battery with the seat springs? I will give you that one, mad but hilarious! The one car I owned that did burst into flames was our old Microcar Virgo, its French you know! Thankfully, the garden hose was adjacent! Funny how things turn out though, I was recently reading about how German cars have really lost the plot on the reliability stakes and Italian car reliability have improved beyond recognition! Something I can testify to as my Fiat Grand Punto has not developed a single fault in six years of ownership from new.