RUMCars Forum
General Category => Microcar News => Topic started by: marcus on November 28, 2013, 09:28:00 AM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25117784
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There is an Enfield in the Ipswich Transport museum.
http://www.ipswichtransportmuseum.co.uk/
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Dear Marcus
Interesting article. Soon there will be another one about the fifth gear presenter Johnny Smith I think his name is with his upgraded Enfield that he will use for Drag racing.
The blue car in the article I saw on the London to Brighton run as it came through Redhill. However it was on the back of a recovery truck. So whilst it was driven on the London to Brighton Run it did not drive under electric power for the full distance, It probably did the first 10 miles and the last 10 miles, and hitched a lift inbetween.
Chris Thomas
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That sounds about right Chris. If my Reva wouldn't make it to Brighton an Enfield surely wouldn't unless running on lithium.
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Just need a small diesel generator in the back, ticking away?
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Just need a small diesel generator in the back, ticking away?
Except it's illegal alas, as the Road Traffic Act states you can't have two means of propulsion acting on a vehicle at one and the same time. You can carry a generator, but it can't be running at the same time as the electric motor is running. Once the batteries are flat, the car has to be motionless if the generator is then brought into play to charge said batteries.
As far as I'm aware, it's the same with UK-market modern hybrids; they run either on their engine OR on their batteries at any one time. Never both acting with each other at the same time.
That square hybrid thing they built on Top gear a few years back, which was also tested by Autocar, was in fact totally illegal to the letter of the law, but since when have facts got in the way of a good story?
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That does seem daft as the generator is only charging the batteries, however, here is a solution.................
Keep the batteries in two separate banks. The generator can charge the batteries that are not connected to the motor. It is just charging separate batteries.
Switching the flat batteries over to the fully charged ones would also switch the generator over to the flat ones.
At no time would the generator be connected to the driving motor.
Disconnect the generator altogether if all batteries were required.
Leave the generator connected to all batteries whilst parked / stationary.
???
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I knew that having 2 active motors is not permitted but I had no idea that a generator charging batteries-in-use was also illegal! It is the same principle that diesel-electric trains and trams have used for many decades. It seems sensible to get an efficient IC engine running a generator at its most efficient rev speed to charge a battery, I can only assume that law was drafted without thinking fully about its ramifications.
I did actually think of using a small motor and generator to extend the range of my drum car, perhaps it is best that I did not! I think that law should be changed to allow more development and use of hybrids without having to carry two sets of heavy batteries.
I know some people have developed electric vehicles (including bikes) with electric hub motors at each wheel, but these would be illegal here. It seems daft and unnecessarily restrictive to me.
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But you need all the batteries connected to give enough torque to drive the motor. Having two sets of batteries would double the cost and the weight. Plus, I have read accounts of people feeding a small generator into there batteries whilst out camping or what ever and it hardly puts anything back in. Same with a solar panel, takes to long to trickle in.
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Don't some electric vehicles all ready have a motor on each wheel - I am pretty sure I have seen that idea being used?
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Yes?
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I think some grockle buggies and bikes have 2,3 or 4 wheel hub motors, but from my research if they are restricted to less than 18 kph then they are exempt from "car" law.
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As far as I'm aware, it's the same with UK-market modern hybrids; they run either on their engine OR on their batteries at any one time. Never both acting with each other at the same time
I'm positive that's incorrect - all hybrid cars, without exception, run their electric motor at the same time as the internal combustion engine. Some hybrids, like the Honda Insight but not the Toyota Prius, cannot run the electric motor on its own - it is only ever used in conjunction with the IC engine.
Hands up who has seen this week's automotive joke - for a modest £100K you can now buy a diesel hybrid Range Rover. That's like fitting padding around a cane so that it doesn't hurt the kids quite as much.....
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I'm sure it can't be right; the Vauxhall Ampera (aka Chevrolet Volt, and both available in the UK) has essentially what Barry suggests - it always has electric motor propulsion, with the charge being maintained, when it becomes necessary, by the on-board 1.4-litre petrol engine starting up to charge the batteries.
Other hybrids manage to run on batteries AND internal-combustion, as a way of providing more peak power than the electric motors alone can.
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Why would it need a 1.4 engine to charge batteries? Or do you mean the engine kicks in to drive the car and charge batteries when needed?
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Why would it need a 1.4 engine to charge batteries? Or do you mean the engine kicks in to drive the car and charge batteries when needed?
No, I mean the engine merely charges. The electric motors are rated at 148 bhp, or 110 kW, so might be using, say, an average of 50 kW on a long journey. The idea is that the car can continue indefinitely (as long as you keep putting petrol in), so you'd need a generator capable of at least 50 kW continuous output - hence the 1.4 litres!
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Ah Thanks for the clarification.
Just read up on it, it seams a better compromise that the other type" hybrids" though the makers claim it isn't a hybrid and does proves Stuarts legal argument totally wrong. Sorry Stuart!
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Why would it need a 1.4 engine to charge batteries?
I think the 'range-extender' function of this engine means that it needs to make enough power for the car to cruise indefinitely at motorway speeds - and that probably needs most of a 1.4, leaving enough surplus to slowly charge the batteries up so that they aren't left in an uncharged condition.
The Ampera type is called a series hybrid since the IC engine is only used in series with the electric motor and cannot be connected mechanically to the drive wheels. Most other hybrids are parallel hybrids where the IC engine and electric motor can be used in parallel with each other (even if the electric motor is actually on the gearbox output shaft and so mechanical drive has to physically pass along the motor's shaft).
If you want some nightmares about hybrids, one of the prototype 1982 Lucas Hybrids came up for sale recently - imagine having your whole vehicle built by Joseph Lucas, Prince of Darkness. In this case he would be the Prince of Zero Entropy, since that is the condition of no light and no movement. And the slightly-RUM connection is that the Lucas Hybrid used a Reliant motor as its range extender.
http://www.sporting-reliants.com/LucasHybrid.htm
And on the title of this thread, I keep reading Titfield Thunderbolt, rather than Enfield.....
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I remember that film!
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"Can't go yet, Squire's not here"
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Great film, I drive past the bridges featured in the opening scene every other day on my way into Bath.
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Great film, I drive past the bridges featured in the opening scene every other day on my way into Bath.
Malcolm
You have made me get the DVD out, ah yes! the local Camerton line below and the express S & D above at Midford with 34043 Combe Martin West Country Express en route to Bournemouth West, happy (off topic) days!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pRrTlOZyqM
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"But if you buy the railway you can make your own timetable and open the bar"
"Then you can write your own cheque!"
I LOVE that film! "Lion" performs well as the Titfield Thunderbolt", wish she was still running.
I still feel disappointed that a motor is needed to drive a generator to power one or more electric motors, it just seems such a lot of gubbins! I suppose you do get the advantage of having a heater for long drives in winter
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Isn't the Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) a device whereby kinetic energy, harvested during deceleration, is stored as an electric charge which can later be recovered to boost an internal combustion engine? Why should that be prohibited? It wouldn't surprise me if it was taxed, though.
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Isn't the Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) a device whereby kinetic energy, harvested during deceleration, is stored as an electric charge which can later be recovered to boost an internal combustion engine? Why should that be prohibited? It wouldn't surprise me if it was taxed, though.
In an electrically-driven car, the recovered energy would be gained by running the motors "backwards" during braking, as dynamos, and would indeed be used for future propulsion. The KERS in the latest blossoming of "eco" petrol and diesel cars, though, is a bit more subtle: the charging system is set to provide rather less than the ordinary (starting, lighting, etc) battery would need. This saves fuel. When the car is braking, though, it then turns on the (normal) charging system fully, as we won't mind the fact that there's a tiny bit extra of engine braking, and we get a fully-charged battery.
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Braking regeneration in hybrids is often thought to be a big saving, but I don't think it is. The Prius is one of the more developed hybrids and I believe braking regeneration recovers less than 10% of the car's kinetic energy. That's worth having at just the cost of a little control software, but is hardly a game-changer.
KERS is specific Formula 1 technology that doesn't exist elsewhere - and no doubt costs several orders of magnitude more than just burning more fuel!
The intelligent charging system on modern cars is clever, since it too doesn't cost much other than software development. It also matches the auto-stop-start of many cars, since the energy to restart the non-idling engine would otherwise have been 'wasted' in the brakes.