RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker) on November 01, 2014, 03:51:18 PM
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I thought I was getting to the end of the teething problems with my Mk D, but since the last time it stopped while I was out on a drive, I haven't been able to start it at all. The only thing I could see that was wrong when it stopped, was that there was a small whisker on the plug. I cleaned it, put it back in and nothing. The plug seems to spark ok and fuel gets through ok, and I've now tried a new plug, lead, plug cap, coil, condensor and fuel without any change - when I tested the old coil & condensor there was nothing wrong with them. The Dynastart turns the engine over fine, it looks like a healthy spark at the plug and the fuel gets through fine. I'm assuming somewhere or other there's an electrical issue that's allowing everything to appear hunky dory when it clearly isn't, but I'm not sure what I can test to check this. Anyones help would be very much appreciated.
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Have you checked the compression? Maybe a sheared key on the crankshaft?
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A couple of thoughts:
(1) When you say the fuel "gets through fine", do you mean to the carb, or from the carb into the cylinder? (A wet plug after failed start, or lots of fuel smell in there would suggest the latter is OK. If not, try both the carb jets for blockage.)
(2) Your spark looks good - but is it at the right timing? As Mark says, the Woodruff key can suddenly shear (eg on a backfire) and the dynastart then slips round the crankshaft a bit - throwing the timing right out.
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Check the points are sparking. My points slipped a while back and had similar results to what you are seeing.
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(just a thought - happened to me some time ago on the way home from Chatteris )
is the piston going up and down ? , mine stayed at the top - the piston crown had snapped off around the top ring grove .
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some time ago on the way home from Chatteris ??
Several decades ago you mean since Michal's camp barbecue and Dave Tucker the Fibreglass F...ellow
Yes Malcolm, Bonds seldom fail to start so if your spark is good and at the right time (3/16" before the top of the cylinder) then all should be well. Have you removed the crankcase drain plug for a few seconds to see if anything comes out?? Do not forget to put it back as I didn't once. My Bonds have always started by flooding the carb via the tickler and then starting using full throttle, seldom fails.
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yes Micheal Porter ,several times stayed at mine ...
said '' he'd never seen a Bond with a factory welded foot well like mine .... they usualy one piece ?
friday tea time car ... ;D
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Thanks for all the suggestions chaps. Points are sparking, piston is going up and down and the plug is getting fuel. I've removed the crankcase drain plug and have drained it a couple of times now since I first started trying to fix the bloomin thing. Compression seems to be about the same as it's always been, but I confess I've never measured it and I also haven't checked to see if the Woodruff key has sheared yet or looked to see if all the piston is still attached to the crank. Perhaps I've been lulled into a false sense of security with the timing, it seemed happy to fire up previously regardless of how the points were set, setting them correctly just made it run a whole lot better.
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Hi Malcolm
Rule number one: it is going to start. Remember that!
DON'T yet disassemble the dynastart to check the woodruff key - far too much like hard work, if the key turned out to be fine.
There's a much simpler way to check, using actions that you need to do anyway: if the key has sheared, the timing will be way out.
(And if the points plate has slipped, the timing will be slightly out.)
So, with pages 18 and 19 of your Mark D Instruction Book to hand (and apologies here for the granny-sucking, but novices may be reading):
1. Remove points cover and cylinder head.
2. Set points gap (this must be done first).
3. Now, get a decent indication of when the points open (you can't do this very accurately by eye):
Either: use a test meter, with one lead clipped to earth, and the other to the spring supporting the "moving" point.
The test meter is set on "Ohms" and needs the ignition OFF. It will show a reading when the points are closed.
Or: use a little 12V bulb in a holder with short lengths of wire. Clip the two wires as above.
The light needs the ignition ON (briefly, while you do the test). The light will light when the points are open.
4. Moving the kickstart lever by hand, get the piston to where it's coming up in the cylinder. As it gets near the top, start watching your test device. Stop where the meter JUST ceases to show a reading (or the light JUST starts to come on). This is the position at which the points open (and spark occurs).
5. (Turn off the ignition if using light and then:) Measure the distance between the top of the piston and the top of the cylinder. This should be 7/32" (or 5.5 mm).
If this is different, adjust the timing by slackening and moving the plate which supports the points. It's a bit "trial and error", as you have to guess the amount of movement, then tighten everything back up, before testing again.
If the timing was so far out that moving the points-plate can't make it correct, then the woodruff key has sheared, and the dynastart rotor has slipped round the crankshaft. If the timing does come back in range, then fine.
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Some final thoughts: what happened when you tried to start (with the kickstart)? If you got backfiring, then the spark is working, but at perhaps the wrong time. (Using the dynastart can disguise that.)
Try it with the points cover off (I've had mine short out the ignition!).
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Hope this helps!
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Difficult to know what to suggest that has not been checked. Air leak? Holed piston, don't think Villiers do that.
Try it with some sniff, Easy Start or such, to see if it kicks.
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Thanks again for all this, hopefully I'll get some time to look at it tomorrow or friday and see where we're at.
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Perhaps you shoud get some of this-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY1YndLmbXQ
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Its still funny.
Bit like Siba's version of The Prodigy, '-I am the twisted- Dynostarter'.
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Perhaps you shoud get some of this-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY1YndLmbXQ
Brilliant! I've tried the usual http://youtu.be/78b67l_yxUc?t=15s (http://youtu.be/78b67l_yxUc?t=15s)
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kick starting saves Siba brush's ;)
Alan
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Perhaps you shoud get some of this-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY1YndLmbXQ
Brilliant! I've tried the usual http://youtu.be/78b67l_yxUc?t=15s (http://youtu.be/78b67l_yxUc?t=15s)
And now rarer than many microcars. When did you see this model last?
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Don't think the 1100 ever really achieved iconic status unlike Issigonis's earlier designs the Morris Minor and mini.
I think the fact that it was styled, and thus looks very much like a car of its era rather than a timeless masterpiece like the mini, contributes to that.
They were martyrs to rust too, like pretty much all earlier monocoque designs, and I guess they just weren't loved enough by the general public to really bother to break out the MIG.
Many of the warmed up versions donated their engines to souped up minis.
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Indeed so. I still think in many ways they were a better car than the Mini. I had a succession of MG1100/1300. THey were far quicker than people realised. Anyway, this particular model filmed is very rare now.
I never bought into this fetish about the Mini being a ground breaking car. It did nothing that had not already been done. BMC lost over £40 on each one they made, so it sold under price for its first few years and cstruggled to make its profit. They got the design wrong, hasty refresh to bodge up the probs, like the prior Minor, which had two inches width added while the designer wasn't looking. Was Issigionis that clever? He refused to have the Mini raced and was against the idea. The promised suspension did not work when it finally got fitted, so was removed again, having bogged up potentially the best of the breed. To the extent many cars had the suspension changed to make it work, on the botch Moulton system, hastily now made permanent. Moulton and Cooper were chucked down the road for offering to improve designs, quality and sales after making the car work.
The saving grace was it handled very well and the engine was already being tuned before the Mini appeared, see giant killing by A35s, so making motorsport possible. To the notice of the in crowd that was very much attached to motorsport, money and music thus gave it a sheek image rather in spite of, rather than because of, BMC management. BL later refused to take the car further and fobbed the world off with the 1275GT, closing Innocenti down. Experiments with bigger wheels failed badly, and bloody things never had brakes to match the performance you could get out of the engines. I know. I have had about every Mini thing that was made and crashed 9 of them when I was young and wild. The car is a wonderful base to build a great car, but what the factory offered was never really the car it could have been. So not a 2CV or a Ludvinka/Porsche that developed into a ground breaking car of the world in my book. Just a great car by mistake. Queue upset arguments.
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The Mini is still an icon despite all you say Al. Just like the Beetle, fiat 500 and all the others. they all have mechanical weaknesses and design faults but they just encapsulate the period. Its not about mechanics, its about nostalgia and what they are visually. When I see one on the roads today and they are not common anymore I just get a warm glow. I'm often taken with how small they look now too.
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In that case they fit well with the more common microcars then. But why would a Mini put a smile on your face more than an 1100 Estate? Would it have to do with the 'new' Mini upping the anti, like the 'new' Fiat 500 and Beetle. The power of advertising is incredibly strong. Why, even the newer VW bus/van thing retains value, as it has rubbed off surfer status from the old death trap. That I think gives a clue, its 'buying a lifestyle'. As you point out, its that flash of recognition and then the associated lifestyle, minus the worts, of course. We all know life was 'better' back then, hype, blar. I am a bad case myself. Where are my comfy old slippers?
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But why would a Mini put a smile on your face more than an 1100 Estate?
Well, an icon is a "person or thing regarded as a representative symbol". If we play an association game with "Mini", we get: Twiggy, pop art dresses and curled up hair, celebrities having their special leather-clad editions, The Italian Job, The Bourne Identity, a first car, the monte Carlo Rally ...
If we do that with the 1100, we get ... Fawlty Towers (and Clockwise?) - not very "representative"!
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Hmm. Sees 1100 and thinks, 'I must have a sauna with the birch twigs'. I like it!
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"But why would a Mini put a smile on your face more than an 1100 Estate? "
Because a mini was the car my wife and I as 19 year old newly weds toured Wales in in 1975, it was a mini that I frustratedly carried my guitar and amp around in with my first band and a mini that I first removed and replaced an engine on. A mini that I first gave my self arc eyes welding and had to be taken to hospital in the middle of the night. It was mini's that we used to race under the car park barrier as it came down behind the previous car to avoid paying the exit fee! That's why when I see one it puts a smile on my face!
1100 estate, now let me think, the elderly painter and decorator bloke down the road had one. Not much there to get emotional about.
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I think the mini works, because it presents a pretty unique package.
Sporty handling/fun to drive.
A high degree of practicality in a very small package
Cheap to run
Cute cheeky look.
The Austin 1100 was just a bigger mini with a bit of Italian styling of the period.
The 1800 was an even bigger mini, and was probably loved even less. I think there are only a handful of those left on the road now.
Some things work well in small packages. The Isetta looks nice as a small car, but I never went much on the BMW 600, to me it looked ungainly.
I think we've hijacked this thread enough now haven't we?
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Alan is that last remark another reference to Fatty Owls ? Brushes as in Basil's Brushes ?