RUMCars Forum
General Category => Unusual Microcar Discussion => Topic started by: richard on November 17, 2015, 11:57:17 AM
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hard one this but is there any way , i have an original print -
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Ah, a man wearing a white laboratory/warehouseman's coat - is there a greater sign of high principles?
But is that a company logo/name on the breast pocket? If so, I think that is going too far.
The writing in the window does say "... in the north" so it's not Snyde and Shark* from Brixton, is it?
* aka Pride and Clarke
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On Photobucket or with Photoshop software you ca increase definition and contrast which makes an enlargement somewhat sharper.
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The pics as you present them, Richard, are fairly crudely pixelated when you enlarge them. You could have a go at rescanning, with a higher resolution, but even that will always reduce some of the original image into (admittedly smaller) pixels. At this scale, I don't think any amount of contrast and sharpness enhancement will turn the block pixels back into letters.
Your best bet, I think, is to look at the original print you have, with a good magnifying glass, or - preferably - a jeweller's loupe of the kind that looks like an eggcup, and you bung over one eye.
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where do i go to get a high res image ? i would like this but I also want the 10 Gordons on the wagon good enough to go in a new micro book and needs to be 1000 + mine only goes to 600 I think
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seing as Andrew doesnt know the pic , its from Bootle , Liverpool
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The two Family 3s on the right were supplied new by Geneva Motors
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Looks identical to the photograph used for the 1959 Family three leaflet
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Great stuff scootacar and Malcolm ! Indeed both KA reg - Liverpool do either owners want a decent scan of shop? Did they pick up on this last time we discussed this shop . When I last popped in they said they had some old bits left but I didn't bother as I didn't know they might be Frisky !
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As if ! Ha ha
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What is the vehicle that the mechanic is leaning on?
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It's a Side Car attached to the motorcycle to its left. Familiar design but I cannot remember the make
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Any idea of the date of the photo, Richard?
We can know an earliest date by the introduction of vehicles shown, but they may not be new. We can put a latest date from the advert for the Sunday Dispatch - which ceased trading on 18 June 1961.
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we had a bit of fun with this photo a good while back , try this http://www.rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=3116.0
pretty sure we ended up with 1960 for various reasons , its also stamped on the back of the print I bought locally so.....
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we had a bit of fun with this photo a good while back , try this http://www.rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=3116.0
pretty sure we ended up with 1960 for various reasons , its also stamped on the back of the print I bought locally so.....
Oh, yeah. Sorry to dig up old news! (At least I was on target ... :) )
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no problem Dave it was a nice interesting photo with lots of leads to follow , I had not spotted the Frisky advert before , but had seen it in the list in the window
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What is the vehicle that the mechanic is leaning on?
Busmar Astral double-adult motorcycle sidecar:
(http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/sidecars/images/Busmar-Sidecars-1964.jpg)
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That's the one Andrew! Such a familiar sight back in the day!
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One forgets the lack of ability to buy a car back in those days. One of the best bits about ON THE BUSES was the motorbike and sidecar, but it was not at all unusual in the preceding decade. Cars have nigh on reach throw away now. Dual fuel Citroen local. No one wants it for £250!
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I like this guy using his similarly-sized Gemini double-adult sidecar as a mini-caravan for attending bike rallies:
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Nice!
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Do any of these have suspensions?
Has anyone added one more wheel and a drive train to any of these?
That would make for some really cool micro cars. :D
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Dear Steve
Almost all of the side car frames had suspension on the third wheel and some German and Russian combinations had a power take off from the back wheel to the third wheel. Mostly for military use, but the drive to the third wheel can make it more difficult to drive on a tarmac road, especially when turning left and right as the third wheel needs to go much faster or slower than the main driven wheel. Also the size of the third wheel had to be the same size as the main driven wheel, which often they were not. So power to the third wheel should only be used off road.
Driving a motor bike with a sidecar is a whole different experience to driving a normal motorcycle or a car.
Chris Thomas
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The easiest conversion is to just move the controls from the motorcycle into the sidecar to make an unusual micro (often by bikers who have been injured). There was even a Yahoo Group for people doing this (TwoWheelsInLine) but it seems to be dormant nowadays.
The thing most commented on by those that do this is the problem other road users have in asking them if they knew their motorcycle rider has fallen off....
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---and the famous Skeleton driving the reduced 2CV based sidecar. Brilliant.
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Indeed, it would take a radical re engineering of the side car chassis to successfully accommodate a useful powertrain and another 2 or 3 wheels.
Could make for some very interesting machines if one could overcome these obstacles for the very same reasons that they are so
appealing in the first place. That is that the designers of these sidecars were enabled to remain relatively true to their stylistic whims when completing their creation.
This was due to their being free from the constraints imposed by having to successfully incorporate the other mechanical contrivances needed to allow stand alone functionality in the first place.
So a challenge indeed.
Who can pull this sword from the stone? :'(
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I may be a purist but a Motorcycle with a side car is good enough, why spoil it. If you want a car buy a car.
Chris Thomas
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Such overly simplified advise stifles the source of creativity needed to inspire innovation.
If all would be and actual vehicle designers limited their vision to what was already accepted as the norm, there would be fewer interesting vehicles to tantalize our senses.
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I think that happened, Steve. Now you copy an old design, shove it through a cad programme and 3d print it. Drag it round a few shows, webpage and hey presto, nice job making boring boxes for the World Clart Company as you look awfully clever. Alternatively do not bother with the difficult bit, make a set of images on the website and bullshit. Then why bother with a job, just collect money from interested people, knowing your never going to build it. What can possibly go wrong?
Innervation has been badly stifled in over regulated markets. Look wider, in free market environments, and there it is. Kicking the bottom of the status quo, moving things forward, making real money, not pretend currancy on loans, gifts and grants.
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Haven't we ended up discussing the Scott Sociable again by a round-about route? Isn't that really a sidecar combination with in-sidecar control?
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I think it's more an understandable appreciation of the asthetics of a vintage sidecar and it's potential for conversion into a microcar becoming conflated by the realities of driving a motorcycle sidecar outfit and it's distinction from other types of three-wheeler. Many outfits would lend themselves to alternative driving positions, but start adding wheels etc and you might as well dispose of the original chassis entirely and just start with the body from scratch. Once you start chopping up an original motorcycle sidecar outfit to produce something else, you get into the ethics of trashing what has become an even rarer vehicle than most 50s microcars. Scott Sociable aside, sidecar outfits begin life by being an engineering and design compromise, that's why vehicles like Owen Greenwood's mini based design caused such a stink in the 1960s.
http://mosquito-triad.com/The_origin.html (http://mosquito-triad.com/The_origin.html)
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I wasn't suggesting chopping up an historic sidecar.
Just appreciating their purity of their design, and hoping that someone could figure out a way to hatch similarly creative, distinct and interestingly designed micro cars. ;)
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Looks identical to the photograph used for the 1959 Family three leaflet
They are different photos. The Mk 1 F3 1959 leaflet is taken at a different angle and shows a bench seat . were as the F3 Mk2 shows two individual seats. The 4 seater bit only worked if you removed your children s legs to get them in the back, not popular so only very few early Mk2's had seats fitted.
Sorry to be late at the party folks!
Regards John
www.meadowsfrisky.co.uk
PS the 1959 leaflet also showed the indicators behind the doors giving away the fact that it is in fact an air brushed Frisky sport photo confirmed by the FriskySport badge on the front, whoops!
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Hi John - I'm not sure which are the different photos you're talking about, my post was referring to the photo stuck up in the shop window display (in Richard's first post) which looks the same as the photo used in the leaflet which says at the bottom Frisky Cars (1959) Ltd. I can't tell if the car in Richard's photo has seats, never mind if they're individual or bench!
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With you there Malcolm , I thought John must have some eyesight ! When we first super analysed this photo no-one noticed the ad for Frisky at all , it's not easy to spot at all
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Ah, yes, removable legs on children - that's another thing that's pretty much disappeared in the modern world.....
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Just need a couple of lengths of good string to the handlebars and off you go. :)
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Add the string and you get the Moby in the Hammond Collection.
http://www.allcarindex.com/main-index/car-make-details/United-Kingdom-Moby/ (http://www.allcarindex.com/main-index/car-make-details/United-Kingdom-Moby/)
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Just need a couple of lengths of good string to the handlebars and off you go. :)
For that matter, you could just elongate one handlebar, and get the shifter and brake on the side nearest the passenger, and operate all by hand.
Even easier if you have an automatic tranny.
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The Moby looks to be a better candidate for making my point.
From a creator's perspective, it would not seem inordinately difficult to have centralized the motor bike's frame and rear wheel and welded in a proper ATV front end replete with suspension steering and brakes, and relocated cable controls to a more conventional pedal assembly.
Wouldn't that make an interesting micro? :P
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A trike with one wheel at the front, double seat and double geared steering. Thus as you steer left the seating shifts over to balance the vehicle by biasing the weight to that side. Vice versa on opposite lock. Saves the passenger leaping about all over the place. Double up on lights and one looks ahead, the other round the corner. No door as such, you get out the rear of the exposed side on lock. Add simplicity of power and design, you have a Microcar no one ever made.
Mosquito Triad - The road going nutter machine to come out of that general drift of thought. Stimson Scorcher.
By request your comments are invited elsewhere.
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if we had a moderator he would turf you all off !! :D cant you do you your own posts ? sure this is why we've lost all the activity - your all posting RUBBISH !
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Dear Richard
As a moderator I would not turf you all off. However the subject has drifted rather too far sideways after Steve Mandell's suggestion, and has gone a bit silly. But it has not been abusive, racist, sexist, or other ist that would require direct action by the moderator.
It would be nice for the originator of the subject if everybody could bring their discussions back to the original subject, If not I am happy to cut and paste the sidecar discussions into a new topic, so the silly discussions can continue in parallel with the serious discussion about identifying the out of focus information on an old photograph.
Chris Thomas
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Only an administrator can divide a topic. In my opinion the two themes here ( Friskies and side/microcar) are both worthy of seperate threads. :)
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if we had a moderator he would turf you all off !! :D cant you do you your own posts ? sure this is why we've lost all the activity - your all posting RUBBISH !
Indeed we have disappeared over the horizon. Trouble is the threads are conversational, so jumping to a new thread then finds a passing idea out of context, meaning there break to a new thread is not there, but it is overall.
Please find a new thread on deviant sidecars up.
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If creative thinking regarding the genesis of a new type of micro car is to be considered only silly or rubbish by the self appointed curators of their heritage, the legacy of the micro car is surely destined for the dust bins of history. :'(
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Nothing to with a frisky advert, a photo or indeed a RUM - open your own topic ? Thanks
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If you come out of your dog, you might notice that increased activity, in the form of just such a split off occurred a day ago. :D
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Now now ladies.
Richard has a point.
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Hi John - I'm not sure which are the different photos you're talking about, my post was referring to the photo stuck up in the shop window display (in Richard's first post) which looks the same as the photo used in the leaflet which says at the bottom Frisky Cars (1959) Ltd. I can't tell if the car in Richard's photo has seats, never mind if they're individual or bench!
Sorry to cause confusion, The blue Frisky leaflet shown by Malcolm is for a Mk2 Family Three with individual front seats not a 1959 Mk1 Family Three which had a bench seat along with a shorter chassis.(not even a chance of rear seats!)
The photo on the window is just too small to identify definitively, my best guess for what its worth is it looks like a Mk2 F3
John
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Hi John , the sheet advert in the window definetly appears to be the blue one featured by Malcolm - presumably it tempted at least two buyers as Grant told us )