RUMCars Forum
General Category => Microcar Events => Topic started by: chrispbug on January 10, 2016, 04:07:34 PM
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Thu 08-09-2016 to Sun 11-09-2016
National Microcar Rally
Venue: Lower Lacon Caravan Park
Venue Address: Wem Shropshire SY4 5RP
www.llcp.co.UK
We're very pleased to announce that the 2016 NMCR will be organised by Alison McCarthy of the Heinkel Trojan Club from 8th - 11th September 2016. The rally will be based at Lower Lacon Caravan Park, Wem, Shropshire, SY4 5RP.
This site offers superb facilities including first class toilets and showers along with electric hook ups, a site shop, cash machine and even an open air heated swimming pool!
We will be based in our own area of this large site with separate entrance. Evenings will be spent in JAKKS barn with full bar and entertainment on the Saturday evening.
Road runs to local places of interest are being planned for the Friday and Saturday. Please check back soon for costs and further details, but get the dates in your diary now.
The National MicroCar Rally (or "NMCR") is held once a year, normally on the first weekend in September. It’s when microcar enthusiasts meet to chat, swap spares, show off their cars, and drive them to visit the surrounding area. For anyone interested in microcars, it’s a great opportunity to see a bit of motoring history, in action.
Contact: Alison McCarthy
Please check www.national-microcar-rally.co.uk for further details
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Thats great now misses Dorset will now be able to come
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Excellent. Looks like the NMCR should be heading from strength to strength.
Nice changes to the NMCR website, too, Malcolm!
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Thanks Dave! I hope everyone likes the new website design, still some technical issues to resolve for mobiles, but hopefully should work on most equipment and browsers OK and get better as I iron out the bugs. I'm particulalry keen to add more pictures onto the historical pages in due course, so do please get in touch if you have anything you'd be happy to go on there to share your happy memories - prints slides or digital.
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Its Wembubbly, for the cup.
Wem in Shropshire, do as the Shropies. Well we will find out. The Trienkelnauts have ever been the backbone of the National, sadly almost in tandem with the MEC once upon a time, but the MEC has gone to sleep somewhere behind the sofa. So very little Schmitty input now, leaving all the others to do what they can too.
This spot is far enough away from Weston to be new territory, so probably more exciting with unvisited places to go. Almost Wales - hmm. A well sorted car and a nice day in the week, the A5 beckons a raid on Snowdonia! Steam boat on Elsmere I was going to buy with a chum as a business opportunity. Wonder if that brilliant transport cafe is still on the Whitchurch road. Great place to get breakfast. Nice man bought an NSU RO 80 off me. Yep, lots to do round there.
As I suspected Beaulieu have remained forward a week from their old traditional date. So one can assume this is now the new traditional date. So a bit of a clearing of date clashes there. I can think of about 5 folk who will be directly effected by that, to the benefit of the National. Unless folk choose to attend the Goodwood Revival meeting of motor car racing, a rather different interest, the calender is pretty clear, I think.
A great event to push at our Irish friends, as its reasonable distance for two ports, Birkenhead and Holyhead.
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If you haven't visited the NMCR rally website in a while and you are intending to book a pitch for this years event, please visit the site for important booking information. Thanks!
http://www.national-microcar-rally.co.uk/ (http://www.national-microcar-rally.co.uk/)
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Wem gen men. Seems that Wem town has a ghost mystery to be investigated. I wonder if that is an optional extra midnight excursion to the itinerary?
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Just booked my trailer so I can bring a couple of cars and camping gear , who else is going and what cars ?
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Hoping to be there with my Bond
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I look to be going, but not sure quite with what, and how. Reality is the Messerschmitt is not going to be ready till next year. Likewise there is a lot of technical work to do on the Autobianchi, which intially looked quite an easy job. Sadly its restorers botched the opportunity with a few howlers . That requires that I need to pay two differing out workers money to resolve the problems. When doing buildings up, that budget does not exist. But it will be going next year. Will the next barn find Messerschmitt be on the road and running? MIght be, but experience shows these cars sell quite quickly once I have them ready. Besides it would not be a car I would readily trust to drive 140 miles unsupported straight away.
So it looks like a day visit, as I cannot really make the most of Saturday to cover the cost of a dog watcher and camping unbooked. That means trying to fill the car up with interested folks. No idea what Stuart is doing. But if the noshed Type 70 is still here it might be we shove that on a trailer and proceed to annoy people. Or I could bring up some spares to sell. Been a very long time since I did an autojumble stand.
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Michael & Jamie (Cook) have booked accommodation on the campsite for the National & intend to take Jamie's Heinkel with them, as it is now back on the road! Sadly someone has to stay at home to look after the farm but on the plus side, at least I will get to watch what I want on TV for a whole weekend! :)
Lesley x
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Hi all, I've just updated the front page of the site with details of the NEC Classic Motor show & details of the 2016 NCMR review meeting.
http://national-microcar-rally.co.uk/index.html (http://national-microcar-rally.co.uk/index.html)
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Dear All
Like last year, I will be manning the Rumcar tent (Gazebo) at the National on the Sunday, to provide a meeting place for all the people who are interested in more than one make of Microcar.
This year, along with the usual stack of Rumcar News back issues and this years magazines for those late subscribers, I will also have a few copies of Robin Spalding's excellent book British Motor Scooters 1946-1970. These have been donated to Rumcar by Robin and are the very last copies in existence. There will not be a reprint, so once they are gone, they are gone.
I will also be throwing out a few issues for discussion, as in theory you are all part of Rumcar and as such the National is a good venue to get your collective opinion.
Please make a point of coming and introducing yourself, so we can all put a face to a name.
I look forward to seeing you all, or at least some of you, on Sunday 11 September at the National
Chris Thomas
Rumcar news
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I do sometimes wonder Chris who is the theoretical member. Come to the whole rally! Bring a microcar! :D
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Dear Bob
Good to see you back on the Rumcar Forum
As Rumcar is not a club I carefully did not use the word Members.
You are quite correct in thinking that the Friday and Saturday are designed for microcar enthusiasts with a roadworthy microcar to explore the countryside. For those of us who have to work and are without access to a road worthy microcar, Friday and Saturday are not the same. However we will not stop those of you with a suitable vehicle from having the fun of the open road. Make the most of it while you can.
I look forward to seeing you on your return on Saturday afternoon.
Chris Thomas
Rumcar News
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I could answer those questions, but will immediately be accused of negativity. Suffice it to say that the micro driver with tent is, as usual, subsidising the none micro-driver with camper. This has been noted, and I know of a number of no shows from the great none aligned, who asked me where they could find details of the rally, but who's budget to attend has, on balance, meant it was not worth their while. They are not members either. But in their case they are not catered for at all, in their minds. So hurrah for RUM.
That said several outcasts did say they might join in. So its not all doom and gloom. Hopefully they will arrive, with running car, and surprise a few folk in the process.
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Well, Al, don't worry: I'll accuse you of negativity anyway!
If people want to know details of the rally, they can find them at the rally's website - always the fullest and most up-to-date version, as things change.
You have (we know) a downer on the use of motirhomes, but your downer doesn't constitute evidence of any "subsidy". The cost of pitches is standard, at £11 or £15 with electricITY (I hate it when campsites say "with electric"!) and in both cases is downright cheap.
There is no compulsion to bring a motorhome, and there is no "class distinction" between those with or without. Both are equally welcome.
I suspect that those who say "we're not going because of the motorhome crowd" are finding an excuse, so they can avoid going, and yet still blame someone else.
It seems odd that I've heard non-motorhomers complain about motorhomers, but never the other way round. (Perhaps, for a more positive experience, we SHOULD ban non-motorhomers???)
And you can attend as a day visitor.
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I look forward to the suprises. The rally does depend on someone stepping forward each year to organise it and whether or not you go along with the arrangements that are eventually arrived at, there is always the option of putting yourself forward for next years event to show everyone how things should really be done! Barring that, there is always the review meeting which will be on Sunday 23rd October 2016 in Pinxton Village Hall, Kirkstead Road, Pinxton Derbyshire NG16 6NA at 1.00pm where feedback about this years rally or the rally in general will be positively encouraged. If you can't make it to the rally or to the review meeting, please send me a direct message and I'll happily pass on whatever feedback you have.
I hope as many people as possible support the rally and for as many days as possible, bringing a microcar with them if it is at all within their means.
http://www.national-microcar-rally.co.uk/index.html (http://www.national-microcar-rally.co.uk/index.html)
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Which is why I did not open the can of worms very much. We have been here before, have we not. Those who want to believe what they want, will. The clues are partially in your answer, if you but wanted to see them. Its entirely a product of logic to see the contrary-wise issues. For years the non aligned folk have used me to find out what the deal was each year. They wanted me to do something about it. I did not want that task, and I have all but given up hitting my head on the wall, in the last few years, when there have been good rallies deserving of more support on the ground, but where is that to come from without advertising etc?
My Fairthorpe arrives tomorrow, and I think I will be attending the National with the first lot of spares to be sold off, and hopefully Stuart. Probably the Villiers / British stuff. None of those Microcars are staying in the collection. I'll take bids on Stuart during the day. Its time for a change, so you win. I hope there will be a bumper turn out, and the weather smiles. For the future, I am off to play Historic limited production Sports Cars, conspicuous by a lack of campervans at their events!
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I have nothing bad to say about the National. Its always been fun and as Malcolm says, people organise it on our behalf at no gain to themselves. However I can see no harm in some healthy debate be it on forums or at the postmortem meeting.
On Als two points, getting the rally listed in other motoring publications. As I dont buy them I cant say if it is or isnt. So is it and if not, wouldnt that be a good idea?
The campervan thing. I dont care if people come in a camper or with a tent, B&B whatever but my only thought on this is at one time a field would suffice. Are we using caravan sites only now just to provide the campers with electric hook up? Would the cost of hiring portoloo's cancel out any extra cost we might be paying for using a caravan park? It would be good to know these things.
Ok £11 per night isnt too bad for camping these days but as of now we dont know the cost of the rally pack. It would be nice to have that up on the website so that folk on a tight budget can see exactly what attendance is going to cost them. If you own a 100k camper I doubt that's going to be an issue but to some people it can make the difference between attending or not. Just a thought. And finally, I for one cant afford to drive to Derbyshire to attend the meeting so I appreciate Malcolms offer to pass on any thought on our behalf.
ps. Just another thought. So if the pitches are £11 each for one camper or one tent without electric I hope that means I can have as much space for my one man tent as a 20ft camper takes up because if not that would really suggest the tent campers are subsidising the motorhomes especially when space is limited.. Lets hope we all have marked out pitches of equal size then for equal cost.
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Watch out Bob, your verging on negativity, old fruit.
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Organising last years national i was reminded that the tenters were subsidising the motor home people but we paid an extra £650 to give the tenters posh toilets next to their camping area.
The main point is to have a national that brings everyone together and provide an experience that encompasses the common love of our hobby.
There will always be complaints but as long as the good things out way the bad then everyone will go away happy.
Have a thought for this years organisers as they will not see much of the rally.
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Have a thought for this years organisers as they will not see much of the rally.
How very true this is. No matter how well organised everything seems to be, the person or persons who are actually in charge of the organising sees more of the rally when watching the re-runs of videos or looking at the pictures that were taken, later. This was true even in the early days when Edwin and I ran the rallies at Dorsington Manor and Sudeley Castle even though we had lots of help we had lots of help, we had very little recollection of who was there or who we talked to for the next day or two. We were only pleased to know we had been able to iron out any problems as they arose so that everyone could be reasonably happy at the end of the day. It is very exhausting but very pleasing when you get to hear it had been a enjoyable event in the main. If there are only negative comments you think to yourself "why do I bother?" So please, don't forget the organiser and all their hard work. Jean
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Organising last years national i was reminded that the tenters were subsidising the motor home people but we paid an extra £650 to give the tenters posh toilets next to their camping area.
The main point is to have a national that brings everyone together and provide an experience that encompasses the common love of our hobby.
There will always be complaints but as long as the good things out way the bad then everyone will go away happy.
Have a thought for this years organisers as they will not see much of the rally.
So here is a fine example of how constructive criticism works. Reality was faced up to and a sensible solution implimented. Result, everyone was happy. I know there are those that will always complain regardless but be careful not to tar everyone who highlights an issue with the same brush. Its how improvements are made. Well done Malcolm.
I take my hat off to everyone who has ever stepped up to the mark with regards the national and am really looking forward to WEM.
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Who is it that complains of campers ? I cannot remember this old chestnut being discussed without coming to the conclusion that it is often , perhaps not always, only Al that complains of the use of campers . It is not generally a complaint I feel . If it's only Al doing the complaining then we must ask ourselves how often Al is there at a rally in a tent cooking as in days of yor ? How many years ago ? Blaming dogs and bad legs etc. Doesn't cut the mustard , many have similar reasons hence less tenting .
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I wondered when we would hear from the high priest of trolling. Does not answer the questions Bob asked on the back of my raising a pricing policy query, does it?. You can throw all the sticks and stones you like at me, I have stated my case, If your minority is right, more folk will attend, enjoying their campers. If I am right, less genuine microcars will be present in running order. Either way I am not really bothered any-more, like many of the folk who own cars privately, and exclusively of club or forum involvement, simply so they can avoid situations such as this. While I am on the subject, congratulations on reducing the active participation of folk on this website forum.
Answer the questions instead of changing the subject and that might produce an answer that is helpful for your event's future, especially since your not at Beaulieu this year, and can participate, adding to the flavour of the event a sneeze and somersault from your home.
This round of communication can be found on another forum, where it is adjacent to the pertinent observation made some while ago, and apparently ignored by those who might have reacted. So should this disappear from this forum, like magic, its not gone away.
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OK,let's get everyone on an even keel,Richard hasn't had a roadworthy micro in,ever? Big Al hasn't camped for years,and I haven't got a micro at all at the moment (though Trabi urges may give way to purchase,600cc,look it up ;-)
I do understand Al's argument,back in my Reliant rallying days,the same issue arised( in fact in the 4 years since I stopped driving one turn out at events has dropped to the handful)
People were bringing huge motorhomes in increasing numbers,but not bringing a car,so you have a field full oif people grabbing a cheap weekend away (cheaper than the caravan club) and the few hardy souls with cars and tents driving long distance to be met with a poor turnout and nothing to interest them.I put forward an incentive,camping was usually £5 a night, I suggested that anyone bringing a reliant got £5 off their fees,and this did boost numbers of cars coming.In the same instance,the micro owner demographic is now much older and wealthier than it was,and they don't want to tent or drive long distance any more,so you are left with a sticky problem.
I think the aging ownership and stratospheric rise in values has more to do with low numbers than any split between tenters and campers. Have a look at the 1993 national video on YouTube, a constant stream of cars being driven in by people with dark hair.Its time which has changed things.
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When you'ved calmed down Al, perhaps you'll retract the personal abuse, which has no place here.
Meanwhile, you've lost (at least) me. Without any additional words, what are the questions which you think Bob asked, and which you think further postings in this thread should be restricted to?
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I think the aging ownership and stratospheric rise in values has more to do with low numbers than any split between tenters and campers. Have a look at the 1993 national video on YouTube, a constant stream of cars being driven in by people with dark hair.Its time which has changed things.
I think I would have to agree, I'd also observe that while some large classic vehicle events do offer free camping, they tend to be very big, long established, and in the same place every year and/or subsidised by corporate sponsorship, a substantive public entrance fee and a large number of traders or autojumblers.
Id' like an event that's fun, free and attended by thousands of microcars and their enthusiasts, but I'm happy with an event that's organised by a few brave souls who're only attempting to cover costs and thankful to anyone who makes the effort to bring something along for us microcar enthusiasts to look at.
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Danial i take your comments about 1993. I was there with 3 microcars and a camper. That was 23 years ago and now i am in my late 60s and a camper van is about all i can take.
As i booked in a lot of last years entrants the average age was in the late 50s (sorry Grant) and most of the campers were towing microcars.
We are an ageing bunch (ask Al) and times change.We should embrace change and modify the rallies to encourage new stock.
Regarding Al. I am sure he will do the same as last year, arriving Sunday morning paying his £2 entrance fee (not the rally pack) and selling parts on someone else stand. He is part of the microcar world and full of knowledge but does tend to upset people.
He is a dealer (retired but still a dealer) turning a profit out of buying and selling.This does not make him a bad person but different in attitude to most of us enjoying our hobby.
It is not my intention to upset anyone but tell it how it is.
I will get my coat!
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Just trying to balance the point Al , if I am wrong I apologise . If you don't camper van or tent to a rally why are you so anti something ? Yes I have not had a car at a Rally for some years but I have attended many times and enjoyed them all , from my little tent 🙂
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When you'ved calmed down Al, perhaps you'll retract the personal abuse, which has no place here.
Meanwhile, you've lost (at least) me. Without any additional words, what are the questions which you think Bob asked, and which you think further postings in this thread should be restricted to?
Just to put them in a nut shell, the questions were as follows.
1. Do the National rally dates get listed in the general classic car press?
2.How much is the rally pack? [I asked Alison and was told its £6. ] Reasonable I think.
3.Will I get the same size pitch for my one man tent as a 20ft camper as the cost is the same?
Not hard questions I think and nothing to do with any aversion to campers, If I could afford one I would be attending in one too. Just seeking reassurance that the tenters are not subsidising the campervans.
No mischief or negativity intended, just curious.
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Thanks for the clarification, Bob.
I'm sure the NMCR administrators, and current rally organisers, are better able to comment, but I'll say this:
1. I know, from previous review meetings and discussions with the administrators, that the usual suspects among motoring journals are indeed approached and asked to publish the upcoming event. Whether they do (and some do) is up to them, of course, as the rally can hardly afford to fund formal advertising (and in which of the many magazines?)
The maths are interesting: pick, say, just 20 of the many magazines and a piddly-by-advertising-standards budget of £100 per mag. That adds about £20 to the costs to be met from each "unit" attending. The cost might scare some off, so assume reduced numbers and £25-30 per unit added.
This cost and the ability to update details as things become clearer (or are changed) are two excellent reasons for passing the main information via the NMCR website.
2. As with other details, the cost of the rally was shown on the website, as soon as it was known.
3. You didn't actually ask this as a question! :^)
But now that you have, let's look at what the £11 "pitch fee" is for. First off, and perhaps a surprise to many, is that it isn't the cost of the pitch! The whole rally works on the basis that it will cost £x to run, and that the organisers need to get back in (a little more than) £x if they can. ("More than"? Yes: some years, poor weather or other unfortunate occurrence might lead to low attendance, and a loss being made. This can be met, because each well-attended rally will have contributed a little extra to the funds, as back-up.)
The cost - to the rally - of the ground itself is usually a fixed sum. There are then the costs of insurance, toilet hire (where needed), printing and equipment, the prizes, and other expenses such as phone calls and travel. All these are added together, and an assessment made by the organisers of how they are going to get the money back. (Mystic Meg time: they don't know how many will attend, or what the weather will be like!)
The income they can use, to cover the total, usually comes from:
(1) sponsorship (though it's usually easier to get something like bags and pens out of companies, than actual money ...)
(2) money paid by:
- those who get a rally pack
- those who stay on the site overnight, and
- those who "day visit", usually on the Sunday.
In all these charges, people are paying "a bit towards having a rally at all". It would be odd, I think, to suggest that tenters can be less covered by public liability insurance, or have fewer available loos, or smaller prizes, or poorer organisation, than those who come with campers.
It's a simple "taxation" system, and will have its peculiarities. Someone bringing along three microcars on a huge trailer, for example, might need more space but is not charged any extra. (We can just be glad to see three cars rather than one!)
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Thanks Dave. That does go some way toward answering the questions.
I did mean just getting the rally date listed in publication event diaries, not adverts.
See you there!
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Timely notification of media outlets results in free classification in diary and almanac listing published free by those same media outlets. The budget is thus several rounds of communications, but is clearly dependant on a an early, organised and informative publication of information. Indeed the budget is more about effort and responsibility, than it is about money. Time was this was done, Weston Parks etc. The National Microcar Rally was a known fixture in the calendar of events. For what ever reason, and I can suggest several, this is no longer true.
Secondly the venue chosen has an immediate impact on the amount of advertising. Farmer Giles field probably has no public attractions, and no publicity budget. If your venue has a publicity budget, as it is an attraction of some kind, then an early agreement in holding the event means free advertisement from your host.
The clear and obvious logic here is that the earlier you organise where and what you are doing, the more free advertising you gain access too, if someone bothers to take advantage of it. I have never understood why this simple message is so difficult to understand.
Quite clearly all the following comments on how its chosen to fund the event stem from the active pursuit of a good venue, early, and thus the free advertisement and invitation of all interested organisations up to and including the Luxemberg Zwerg Club. For having caste your net wide and long your will inevitably catch more fish.
This is before any sort of media coverage, or publicity stunts, are created. Again, with the right venue, that publicity would normally be in a presentation advertising the host as well. Good venues employ a PR executive, who will be able to help maximise this. Now the clever bit is to realise that free major media coverage is worth a lot of money to a suitable host venue. 3 TV spots on local news is worth about £50k - £75k, in advertising purchases, and we can get that free. The perfect leverage on which to negotiate some discounts or privileges from the host venue, thus gaining a cheap, or more flexible venue. That is a clear advantage to those attending and can be advertised, that word again, to potential attendees, moving some wavers to come as well.
Thus while I accept your dissertation on the way that it is chosen to work out the costings of the event, I will not comment greatly on it, for it will be clear from the above I would not be doing that way. I would say that a form of taxation based costing is a good analogy, and quite clearly exhibits a tendency for subsidisation of certain pressure groups. Since taxation is a policy, you can vote to avoid it by not paying, ergo a no show, or 'unemployment', by not bringing a car, just walking about getting under peoples feet for a day's walking entrance. (I could have done that free last year, but as always, made a point of paying my dibs to the control ten)t. For years Basil used to drive into the Cotswold Wildlife Park, pass the main gate for free, then park in the public car park and walk into the Microcar section for free. Looking back, who was the fool for bring his car on site? Me. But I believed in club ethics and that things would get better if we all pitched in, then.
Comes down to some simple questions.
1/ Who is the rally, if a rally it is, not a show, for? If its the National Microcar Show, then you have a closer template on the modern events. Rally is to suggest a principally driving based event featuring working cars. Shows are more static and suited to stuff like stationary engines.......
2/ What sort of venue does the target group, and here I am pretty certain we are talking about Microcar Drivers and Owners, want.
3/ How is that best achieved to gain the fullest of uptakes? Well I have pretty much answered that for you. Early booking. For prime venues that is probably 18 months in advance of rally day. Due to the nature and timing of National Meetings that really means two years in advance. Currently this seems to be resisted, its certainly not sought as a policy. So your hamstrung before you have started.
None of that is negative. None of that is anti campervan. But from my perspective the campervans are a pressure group, pushing for venues that suit their needs, not the needs of all microcar drivers and owners. The one lot are in principle minimalist and only need a small area to be happily active. That opens up quirky, unique venues no one else, except perhaps motorcycles, can use. The other group are the exact opposite of what they claim their interest is, So they are not minimalists by habit, and need huge fields of space, pushing up costs, to be on site. To be on the event field, the presence of large support vehicles reduces the number of venues, and tends to dominate the event - the damp Calne will for ever tickle my ribs. An event actually trashed by campervans. Micros on there own would have been no problem, and were no problem. I have no doubt this will be an unpopular view, but its not a negative one, since the campervans can be catered for with a little imagination, and a little bit of giving by those who wish to use them, by not being the centre, be all and end all, of what is going on. Get them off the rally field, and stick them somewhere out of the way, where they pay their fair share for being there. Let the microcars dominate the proceedings. Make it so they want to be there. But this all goes back to what your answers are to those three questions. If the majority compromise towards campervans then fine. But do not whinge of other people choose not to play and call you out. Yours is very clearly not the only answer.
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Just trying to balance the point Al , if I am wrong I apologise . If you don't camper van or tent to a rally why are you so anti something ? Yes I have not had a car at a Rally for some years but I have attended many times and enjoyed them all , from my little tent 🙂
Ooo eck. Sounds a bit 'Allo Allo', sir.
No, do not get me wrong. I am pleased for you that there is not a clash, and that you can go, hopefully. Sounds like Mike is going too. For all the bickering, its the melting pot of characters that flavour the event.
Its a problem to dodge Septembers big events as they come in succession. Earlier is Holidays, later the weather and temperature tail off. There will be those who always attend one of the other events in preference to the National. Its a choice for each to make. Not a lot one can do about it, sadly. I myself used to favour Beaulieu, till the ruckus with the idiots controlling access to the site. That was the year someone let off a large Roman candle through the letterbox of the site office Saturday night. I really wish it had been me!
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Just going over some of the things in Dave's explanation, I read it in a hurry as was just going out. Now I've digested it I agree, its a taxation with anomalies. As Al pointed out its not the only way of doing it. Another rally I attend each year does it by charging per person and not per tent or camper. I think that's a fairer way personally. Six people in a camper or large family tent for instance[that may be a slight exaggeration to demomstate a point :)] and little old me in my one man tent. Both units paying say £11. I brunt the whole thing, the other crew pay less than a couple of quid for the same facilities. Levy per person is fairer in my view.
Second minor point, it was said that the cost of the rally was on the website. The rally pack cost was not and still isnt.
The rally dates can be added to classic vehicle publication event diaries for free and does not have to include all the details, only the date and contact details ie the website. Once they have the website they can check themselves for details and any changes. the fact that there may be changes is not alone a legitimate reason for not publicising the rally in the classic press.
Anyway, these observations are by no means complains. The committee like to do things to a historical format and to a large extent it works. No harm in considering alternative ideas from time to time though.
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The best way to implement these suggestions is to volunteer to do the next national and afterwards listen to the comments.
I guarantee there would be a new set of complaints.
Its a poison chalice.
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Second minor point, it was said that the cost of the rally was on the website. The rally pack cost was not and still isnt.
Ah, the mysteries of the interweb. It's certainly there when I look!
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Altogether too much whingeing , do some of you enjoy this hobby at all ? 😀 Jeez !
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Spot on Malcolm, but you are a man of words and action. Life would be so much more pleasant if more were to adopt your proactive approach and take on the National and put your own unique 'twist' to it. I don't recall any complainants about last years rally, free food, free ale and much more but prior to the rally as is the case every year there were plenty words of wisdom from those who do much talking and little else. Remember, talk is cheap.
I will try and attempt to answer a few of the questions, however, folding and stapling the Rally programme is much more important this evening.
Bob, the costs of the rally pack/entry fee and autojumble/club stand pitch are on the website, try refreshing your browser as your PC may be using a 'cashed' version. This was added to the website earlier in the week when it was brought to my attention on here that it was missing, sorry about that.
For several years now, Grenville Taylor has dealt with the rally publicity and has had much success getting some brilliant coverage in the large glossy magazines. He has also become dis-heartened though when many don't even include details in their 'diary' of events. Each year, it very much 'hit and miss' as you are not paying for premium advertising. We do however, always get coverage from two very well known motoring journalists who attend the NMCR each year. Grenville also has made contact with many of the clubs on the fringes of the microcar scene to further boost numbers. Notable success have been the Fiat 500 club, Club 126 and the Carver owners. DKW, Trabant, Reliant, Citroen specials, Lomax and many more have been invited year after year with little success. I know Al continues to make this valid point about pre publicity but what else can be done ??. Grenville will smile when he reads this post as he has done all he can do to improve the situation. This years pre publicity has had much focus in the local Shropshire area with a good number of HTC members participating at shows drumming up interest.
With regards to the charging per pitch vs per person, the answer is very simple, the campsite that we are using charges per pitch therefore this years organisers are doing the same. Which ever system is used there will be someone who feels disadvantaged. Personally, the costs of a pitch are insignificant in comparison to the costs of travel to and from the rally. Every year there are always a small number of people who refuse to pay the fees and cause the organisers an unpleasant situation just at the most stressful point of the rally. The same people will then be seen on the rally field later in the day having 'sneaked' in.
Perhaps we can try and return to a more positive 'spin' and get behind this years organiser who has taken on the rally almost single handed. SHE is doing a great job and the rally will be brilliant regardless of the number of motorhome and the size of the pitches. People and cars are far more important than all this trivia.
Finally, Al last attended an NMCR with a microcar (Honda Z which was trailered behind his Volkswagen LT van) in 1999 when the MEC organised it at Toddington. Correct me Al if I am wrong ;)
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A brief aside if I might . The rally sight owner/ supervisor appears to be a lady named Lynne , and what a great girl she is . I cannot make the rally and I had parts to pass on to attendees from disparate parts of the U.K. . I popped in a couple of months ago and asked could I leave these trim parts with her nearer the date . Lynne was so obliging ! I phoned again last week and she said yes I am expecting you I have a note in the diary !
This Thursday I actually phoned her to say that the swap was being done elsewhere and we would not need her help , but she's a cracker and I hope all goes well this year and if she has anything to do with it it will go swimmingly !
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Oops sorry Scootacar - here here !
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My goodness some of you lot are difficult to please!
People are doing this voluntarily for pities sake.
Haven't been to a micro car rally since 1993, but costs don't seem to be hugely higher than they were back then, only my income has almost trebled since then, so it looks like a bit of a bargain from where I'm standing.
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That was the last time I helped organise the event. I opened and closed the road run. A route I organised and previously mapped out complete with guess what is in the bag feelies to add to the treasure hunt. Indeed there was a last minute change due to the heavy rainfall so as to allow cars to not be forced to take a ford that might have been deeper than was deemed fun. I had the evening off then I stood the late night gate duty, 12.00 till 4.00, to catch those attempting to sneak in without paying. and to monitor the site should anything occur. I had one of the biggest autojumble stands I have had at a National. I helped resolve two failed cars on site and got one home. Yes, I was at Toddington, doing what I used to do, behind the scenes, because I enjoyed doing it. That is slightly more than arriving with a van and a Honda Z. In fact I had a second car there on loan to a mate. The Honda alone covered some 180 miles that weekend, I think. I was fagged out at the end of it, which was Tuesday midday for me.
We later had a meeting and it was pretty clear to us that the demograph of those attending had changed since Weston Park, where we had filming going on. There was more argument and petulance from people attending. I can still recall the cases, but will not go into them. The turn out was not as we had hoped. There was a marked problem with cars not being used. It was agreed that it was as if those who were static wanted a different event to those that drove, who had become a minority. We preferred active participation, to inactive participation That was the last event that that group of organisers chose to do, as we felt our efforts had not been rewarded with a good response. None the less I think we made a handsome donation to the Rally funds.
I have driven classic cars to later Nationals, I have no idea if they were included in the event, all I know was I was enjoying what I was doing. The events drifted off into places I did not care to go, clashes with Beaulieu and my own life became more complicated as my responsibilities to my family grew whether it be here or in France.
I do remember driving both an Austin Healey, and the following day, Harry the Schmitt to Quainton, where I was mugged for some £20 plus to drive in and park my Messerschmitt. If it had not been for friends being with me, I would have turned around and driven straight back home again. This rip off was apparently due to the prior two events after Toddington loosing a lot of money. I felt very burned by that and the following years events continued to frequent uninspiring locations. Seem to recall a Scootacar at Southwell I bought on the way there. I parked in the road for the flooded Calne, as I saw no reason not to with out of control support vehicles lurching all about over the place.
What is the point you are trying to make?
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Thanks grant for the information, it somewhat contradicts a previous explanation but I think that was based on a general overview of previous years. Good to hear from the horses mouth so to speak.
The costs all appear to be up on the site now but were not last time I looked. I agree, the main considerations as far as cost are concerned is the fuel used getting there and back again.
I do somewhat regret asking a few innocent questions, although I finally got them answered it wasnt without feeling I was being reprimanded.
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Speaking for myself, I've never been hugely bothered about what folk are kipping in at a National, just so long as there is a National to be present at. The National having been the high point of my year for several years now. I am also immensely proud of the fact that I can claim to have been present at a "real Burford" as well, albeit only for an hour & I don't remember a second of it due to the fact I was only six at the time (the 1987 National), but it all counts don't ya know. ;) ;D
As regards costs; how much is one's pleasure & joy worth? (answer; get the price first! Oops, wrong forum!) Peel Rally 2014 cost me over £600 for four days (and I was in a tent & all!) Do I regret a penny of it? Not on your nelly. Everything only happens the once. (think about it!) Get on & get right in there or spend forever wishing you had.
Funnily enough, I was only counting up the other day what I've shown & where, the list coming to nine different vehicles at six different Nationals. (oh yes folks, three times I brought two vehicles, and at Southwell '06 I managed three objects on the line, though most studiously ignored them because they were "only" invalid carriages.) Not bad going I declare, considering I've never had my own transport to shift the things! All being well, a fortnight's time should see the count rising to my tenth different vehicle at the seventh different rally, and once again, like the on-loan Norsjo Shopper last year, one of these has never before been seen at a National, and I hereby announce I am also once again laying open siege to the oft-times coveted Grot award, the real Best-in-Show title as far as I'm concerned... 8)
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Very true Stuart. The motivation to go is the driver. If that drive is great enough. a cost that might seem excessive to an outsider. is worth it to the guy spending the money. It will be clear, therefore, my motivation slipped after Toddington, and became dented after Quainton. The cost to me of events prior to that, on occasions, was considerable, as I put a great deal of behind the scenes work in before and during events, doing various tasks. In the days when we had loads of our Continental chums coming over, this included putting on a Barbecue in my garden free, to entertain the earlybirds. Taking dead cars back to Dover, free. Rebuilding engines and loaning parts. But when your reward is to be treated like dirt, the shine eventually comes off, even though I enjoyed doing much of what needed to be done, and importantly, it was reciprocated when our chaps went abroad. Save some older Germans who had every reason to have a chip on their shoulder, I never got less than an enthusiastic welcome touring abroad.
It is actually yourself that helps get me along to the meetings now, as its a pleasure to see someone enjoying themselves, despite that we locals pull your leg over it.. You are, quite by a long way, the biggest supporter of the National in an area where there are quite a number of cars - most of which are in permanent hibernation. Depressingly I have attempted to get some interest going in the South west corner of the country for the National, but I fear the response might be poor for the population of cars down there. I am bereft of any further ideas to offer that might change that. The message coming from further north is, its their problem, which is not unreasonable, but it leaves me feeling that opportunity is being missed.
However its up to other folks to do what they think is right, and has been for sometime. I was not going to revisit all this, but kind of had my hand forced by it being the open hunting season. Poor old Bob got rolled in the dirt for popping up asking some quite sensible questions.
I am sure Grenville has done his best, When did he not, But he only has the ammo he is given to throw at these folk. If that is after deadlines, or not a clear cut event, its not going to make the listings, which are normally in preparation at the same time the NMRC are deliberating on where the event will be. I do not make the rules up. Two of the main date diaries are published before Christmas, you do not exist, if your not in them.
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From the mid 80's onwards values have steadily risen- better spares availability and many of the cars becoming recognized as design icons as opposed to rolling jokes, have pushed up prices. With that comes a different sort of owner, cars end up being restored to a far higher standard, better than when they rolled out of the factory in some cases, and owners see them as little tin idols to be polished and adored rather than driven and used.
If you want to organize ride outs, then organize one. What's the problem? All you need is a time, place, and a few enthusiastic participants. Use the internet and social media to get the word out, cost to the organizer is nil apart from their time plan it out.
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Assume that is a general observation, apologies if not. Said enough on all this.
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Just returned from the National and have to say it was the most enjoyable one I can recall. A great venue which I hope we can return to some time. The pitches were enormous!
Many thanks to all involved.
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I concur for one simple reason. The venue divided neatly with support vehicles to a camp site, with a dedicated parking area beyond. So there was no need for the perimeter of the area for the Show part of the rally to be populated with vehicles that were not meant to be there. Sadly some people still felt walking about 50 yards was to irksome and polluted the area, but short of the organisers chasing out the ignorant, what can you do,
My journey was 3 hours up from Oxford area. For a weekend, no big deal. For the day, an early start and empty roads. As it happened I chose not to follow the expectation of the published map, and head to Shrewsbury (expectation that you have a camper/caravan unsuited to smaller roads, of course). Instead I headed to Whitchuch on the first road north of the M54. I challenged my bump of locality navigation against the idea of putting in a sat nav reference to find Lorton. With no map I actually only made one error on turning left to cross country to gain the more westerly position of the rally. We did a bit of a dogleg, but correctly picked out the crucial turning over a low ridge. This delightful road took us to a cliff steep wold, through some stunningly beautiful countryside devoid of traffic. Low and behold, with Root remembering the name of a Park, we took a few guessed turnings to approach the rally site from the 'wrong' direction. Had I done this route in a micro, or classic, it would have been an integral part of the rally experience, and possibly much of it the route taken the day before to access Cosford. So though my leg was not working to max efficiency, my brain still functions as it had, I can still scoff at the sat nav.
Good to meet old chums, but only a few of the boys from the wastelands of no club membership appeared. Hopefully I helped those asking for help. A few folk were a bit surprised when I deflected offers to buy caches of parts by introducing them to local enthusiasts who might achieve a simpler deal. I am serious about reducing the amount of stuff here, remember that comment for later. Not a big turn out from the South. But the far South West had made an effort, so maybe Bath was sacrificed on the altar of the National this year. Jason impressed with driving a Bond 875 up from Devon. He admitted it was a bit of a hairy driver.
I have no idea if there were more, or less, cars. Would have said a few more. But last years event probably bolstered this years and the feeling on the field was good. Root created the only negative vibes I noticed, which I think might have been slightly calculated on his part. Though his Safari leaving half its rear body on the ground, as he sped round the rows of cars, added to the effect. As did a lot of folk shouting about this, or his velocity, to no effect, as with the engine on, little hearing becomes no hearing. Root expressed surprise that his speed could be greater than 8 miles an hour - the stated limit of the Safari. Well Ray Dilks is still pretty fit, and he could not catch up to tick our budding Paddy Hopkirk off for his antics, till he had stopped. All a bit 'Magnificent Men', only missing a cry of 'Look out, there's another Germam'! Immensely amusing, I thought.
But additionally there were negative comments as to why a pavement carriage was part of a Microcar Rally. Am interesting factor, as one could ask why certain other things were, or were not, on the field of play. There is a never ending debate, if you ever wanted one. For myself I have never been against an area for guest machinery of pretty much any kind to turn up, provided it does not dominate the event. So could the complaints be from folk who's cars demonstrably did not work, being miffed by a beyond the pale device. that did, by dint of the family washing line as throttle, and various other rudimentary temporary repairs? Such was our thinking in the cause of chaos! It livened up a very static day of Show.
The return trip was a reverse route, and of the same time. I previously said to Grant at one point, this shows the Nationals traditional support now being up country. My central position toward the south is a reasonable trip, but along with fewer of those who attend from the south, rather predicts the National remaining further north, than it was in the habit of doing 20 years ago. I met Bob Parry and he, of course, organised some of the best rallies of the lot, at Weston Park, what, some 20 miles south of Wem, at that time. We have reached a point where like the Northerners, who for many years did the hard miles, the Southerners now have to organise and innervate an event or two to prove their point or do the hard miles. The only minus of this is it takes the event further from the ports and reduces the chance of our continental chums coming over to join in. I really miss that. But a few made it, and I hope they were spoiled for the effort by those on the ground.
This venue offers several years worth of trips out. Anderton lift. Canal museum. Ellsmere, Llongollen and railway/canal aqueduct, and I am sure there is more.
On getting home its clear that a running microcar is needed, a refresh of the camping equipment, and I can regain my hobby, while retreating from full time microcar activity. Might sound daft, but there you are. That means getting rid of more stuff. So the laugh was in, and the affor mentioned comment look stupid, as on my email collected while I was out was a treat to go and clear 6 Messerschmitts, in differing conditions, for cash, out of a property being redeveloped. Of course its rude to say no, but its like the cold war. I agree to less arms by treaty, to buy some more surreptitiously. If the deal fruits, I will not be keeping them. But it will have been a busy year 'clearing' this place, by empting both this new place and Oddingley, but I am not complaining.
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There were so many good things about the venue. It was the first time me, Planty and friends felt no need to leave the site in the evening looking for a good pub. The on site cafe served good food at reasonable prices, the bar and social hall was all reserved for us although I have to say that when the hired band started playing on the Saturday night they cleared the room in 10 seconds as all beat a hasty retreat into the cafe area! This is what happens when you dont hire Bob and the Bubblers! :lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-H3nUbhkY
As I said before, the individual camping pitches were so big! Me and Planty had a pitch each because its a site rule that only one tent of camper occupy a pitch. My chum Steve also had a pitch adjoining with his car on it which he kipped in so together we had a half a football pitch. It felt a little wasteful if anything. On Sunday the public failed to recognise the pitch markers and we ended up with strangers vehicles parked on our pitches and two family picnics going on! As we had so much space nobody cared. Previous fears about under canvas dwellers subsidising campervans appeared to be unfounded at this rally although I'm sure that has not always been the case in the past. I have no complaints at all. One poor old boy tripped over one of mike guy rope pegs and landed face down, I did feel sorry for him especially as he had a metal knee. He appeared unharmed after we got him to his feet. There was some swearing but we pointed out that it was a camp site and he was cutting across our pitch so he soon shut up. Following my recent key losing episode I trumped it by leaving the Bobette key at home so upon arrival was unable to even drive the car to park up! Idiot! Still I was able to get started by an old trick which I had better not talk about on a public forum for security reasons but suffice to say, 1950's car security is not wonderful! :lol:
The Saturday run was quite eventful with many wrong turns taken and much doubling back. At one point a road junction looked like a WW2 dog fight with microcars approaching and crossing paths from all directions, hilarious! Quite a few breakdowns, Dave Millers Bond was acting up and Poor old Jamie Cooke on his first rally run had a problem with plug fouling and then later clutch slipping in the Heinkel but finished the course never the less. My freshly rebored villiers decided to nip up momentarily twice whilst hill climbing but carried on regardless and finished the course unembarrassed.
I was also chuffed to be handed a small trophy shield after handing in the large returnable peoples choice shield from last years win. That was a nice touch, being given a little momento of the previous years win compensated for having to give the big one back. I also picked up another prize which included a years subs for Rumcar news which was appreciated. After a pretty trouble free return home on the M1/M25 which is a miricle in its self, I will remember the event as one of the best I have attended.
Online
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My sentiments exactly, though one thing Bob has not mentioned is if any future micro event is held at the site, be sure to pack a mallet if camping! ;)
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Shropshire Star
http://www.shropshirestar.com/entertainment/2016/09/13/in-video-and-pictures-tiny-cars-take-the-stage-at-the-national-microcar-rally-in-wem/north-micro-24-sl-11/ (http://www.shropshirestar.com/entertainment/2016/09/13/in-video-and-pictures-tiny-cars-take-the-stage-at-the-national-microcar-rally-in-wem/north-micro-24-sl-11/)
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Sounds like a great NMCR shame I couldn't make it . I do hope Grant and Mike Hele received the new Bond moulding strip that I asked Nick Mander to pass on 😏
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I've now added the gallery pages to the NMCR website.
http://national-microcar-rally.co.uk/nmcr2016.html (http://national-microcar-rally.co.uk/nmcr2016.html)
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Thank You for the Great pictures! Sure makes me miss being back in the UK for the NMCR!
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Good to see you back on the Rumcar Form