Author Topic: Mystery Machine Now For Sale  (Read 8839 times)

Triporteur

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Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« on: March 04, 2008, 07:21:02 AM »


I posted a Mystery Machine listing last year on Rumcars. It was totally ignored by you guys  :)
(I realize your interest and expertise is microcars rather than a 3-wheel scooter with a Messerschmitt engine).
But I really like the Rumcars idea of mystery machines...

I'm selling most of my triporteurs, and I decided to sell this one as a Mystery Machine (well, no other choice really - nobody knows what it is). It has generated interest already, even before its auction goes live on Thursday. The first suggestion is an IWL body (comparison above).

You can keep an eye on it through my new website below, where I'll update further suggestions:

http://www.BuyVintage.co.uk

It's on page 99


Online Bicycle Museum - http://oldbike.eu

Online Cyclemaster Museum - http://Cyclemaster.co.uk

Sales: http://BuyVintage.co.uk

blob

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2008, 09:51:21 AM »
Gee! thats a serious bit of Spring cleaning Colin. So when do these auctions take place?

Triporteur

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2008, 01:37:26 PM »
Yes, I have had to face up the fact that I am addicted to buying old vehicles. Luckily, the vast majority were not expensive (and mostly cyclemotors) but once you add it all up it comes to quite a lot - and even though I took on a big storage unit it is now full!

The expensive motorbikes (and BSA 3-Wheeler) in the auction are my friend Andy's; plus 4 belong to my French friend Alain. Mine are the cars and oddball stuff.

I've given it serious thought, and am keeping an example of each of my favourite types of vintage vehicle and selling the rest.

I've also retained enough cyclemotors so I can still do displays and give talks on the Cyclemaster Museum.

The auctions will all go live on ebay on Thursday (6th March).
Online Bicycle Museum - http://oldbike.eu

Online Cyclemaster Museum - http://Cyclemaster.co.uk

Sales: http://BuyVintage.co.uk

Jawmedead

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2008, 09:17:24 PM »

Dan Rodd

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 09:37:09 PM »
a shame that Andy is addicted to number plate rape,still nothing matters so long as he makes as much money as possible :'(

Bob Purton

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 10:03:07 PM »
There is some interesting stuff along with some rubbish too. I'm disappionted that the mystery trike has the misleading heading Messerschmitt engine because it clearly is not. As the listing states right at the end it is a kickstart sachs 191 motor and it does not have an integral fan either according to the owner. I fear someone will see the heading and buy it for the engine thinking they will have themselves a spare motor for there messerschmitt only to be disappionted. I love the Corgi and sidecar and also the folding scooter, I couldnt see the BSA car , I guess it will come on later,  my favorite bike is the BSA Sloper.

inacoma

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 10:09:14 PM »
Hi Dan

The number plate trade is always going to be a bit of an issue for some people, but at the end of the day everyone needs to earn money, so if they are prepared to search for and buy up things and then sell off the plates it's their choice.

I would rather buy a microcar without a transferable registration if the price is cheaper to reflect this.

Original with original reg. is best, but you get what you pay for.

It's each individuals choice.

john

Dan Rodd

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 10:34:24 PM »
it just annoys me that bikes that have been left alone for 50 yrs have their history wiped away by dealers taking the cream off the industry.
It gets tiresome looking at rallies at a sea of bikes all with scottish highlands numbers stuck on with white sticky letters.
One notorious dealer used to advertise for plates in one of the glossies(ive been told by other dealers that not even they will deal with him!)his slogan being you ride the bike not the plate,well sorry,one of the main reasons i ride the bike is because of its history and historical place in this world,and that plate given to it 50 years ago by a local council is part of that history.
All it does is line their pockets,rob our history and feed the vain owners of expensive cars.
checked on the net and my old Ariels plate i sold 2 yrs ago to Andy(unknowingly)is now on a Porcsche Boxster

Stuart Cyphus

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 11:31:04 PM »
 Personlised plates used to be fun 30 years ago, mostly becuse the vast majority of them were "dead" plates under the old three-years-not-taxed-and-it-loses-its-number rule, resurrected by folk often after mamouth battles with the local authorities. I've got a couple of Noel Woodall's early books on the subject and the tales therein make jolly interesting reading. Nowadays the whole thing seems to lost any meaning or interest at all with the DVLA selling off numbers that were never issued in the first place and thus have no history or standing behind them. In the old days just aluded to, all the plates were "real" plates with "real" histories behind them.

 As most may know by now, my number one hobby (even above invalid carriages, Reliants & microcars) is collecting car number plates. No, not jotting them down in a notebook, but actully collecting the lump of metal (or plastic) fitted just above the bumper. I've actully acquired quite a few nice original plates from such & such a vehicle later to see (or hear of) them on something else.  GRB 1 MUST still be floating around on something, and only last July I acquired EYE 3C off of a Vanden Plas 1300 destined for the banger track. There was actully quite a kerfuffle about this number at the time becuse the VDP was still taxed & MoTed & had came from out by Warwick, but as the car was being prepared for the track, the DVLA piped up that a bloke from London was claiming his Mercedes had carried that number since 1998. In a case like this, the DVLA calls for both cars to be presented at the local inspection office of the older car involved, which was the VDP & Warwick. The case was due to be inspected on the Wendsday, but the Vanden plas was raced on the Sunday before! I saw the state of it afterwards and still wonder what the men in suits at Warwick inspection office thought of it that Wendsday.....  But I ramble....

 I will just clear up one misconception about all those vehicles one see's with age-related numbers; Only about 20% of cars, mopeds & bikes ever lost their number to the plate dealers, the other 80% were never placed on the DVLA computer in time back in 1983. Actual real-existing vehicles only ever accounted for a small proportion of the dealers stock despite all the horror stories becuse most of them found it too much work to move the vehicles through. Of course, once the DVLA started offering the unissued stocks, things exploded, but thats another story.  As a number plate buff, I can actully find an age-related plate quite interesting, as I've studied their dates of introduction & sequance of issue, so to me, I can actully work out quite a bit of that vehicle's later history at a glance. Mind you, no age-related plate really comes near a GENUINE plate, but don't get me started on the subject of modern-day reproduction number plates else we'll be here all night!

 Talking of personlised plates, I'm quite pleased at the moment becuse I've just acquired a very large & very famous collection of number plate photos taken in the 1970s & '80s. Such a revelation might not mean much to the members of this forum, but in one or two of the other clubs I'm a member of, there's going to be a lot of folk absulutly green with envy when they find out what I've got hold of.....  ;D

Dan Rodd

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2008, 12:32:10 AM »
i suspect that the number of plate dealers victims is a lot higher than you think Stuart,most of these dealers have been doing so for 30 yrs,and every bike they have got in,running into tens of thousands that could have its plate sold has been.

look at any dealer adverts and see the blank plates,highland number plates,or pics that cleverly hide the fact that its been sold.
there is a website that you can use to check if a vehicle is insured,if so it tells you what the plate is on.Fred Dibnahs AJS motorcycle's plate is now on a Porsche!

Triporteur

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2008, 09:12:35 AM »
Bobbybubble - I bought this mystery 3-wheeler thinking it had a Messerschmitt engine. (Reason being the owner approached a friend of mine who was selling his spare schmitt engine at Beaulieu autojumble and the guy said it was the same as the one in his workshop, and we never questioned it). I just found out last night by email from Richard Parsons, a scooter expert, that with the fan housing on the left and no dynastart it means that it is an IWL engine. So now the identity of the mystery trike is solved at last! - it is an IWL Lastenroller.

I obviously didn't mention the Messerschmitt engine to deceive anyone (the original post has been up on this website since last year mentioning schmitt engine). Neither did I buy the thing to make money. I paid £250 for it and had to drive 100 miles to collect it, which was quite a hassle. I bought it to save it.

*****************

Regarding the usual anti-dealer diatribes, just because someone has the initiative to try somehow to combine their hobby (read obsession) for vintage vehicles with business, they are always fair game to be slagged off. Obviously it is not the case here, but there's a terrible British habit that anyone deemed 'successful' or high profile who reminds a slagger-off of their own perceived failings must be shouted down. With the vintage vehicle hobby, it's often someone jealous because they are an accountant with a lifelong unfulfilled wish to be involved in the vehicle trade and no guts to go for it themselves.

HOWEVER, the removal of its original plate does take away an important part of a vintage vehicle's history, ie its registration with the authorities. Luckily, its actual history is still there, and can be seen in its old documents. Nevertheless what we like most about old vehicles is 100% authenticity and obviously the reg is an important factor.

The point is that the number plate of a vehicle is displayed very prominently.

Whether age-relateds are because of lost docs or plate transfers, they do look daft all in a row at a show. What really gets my goat is seeing an age-related on an old car in a movie; you'd think they could get a period plate made if they've gone to the trouble of getting a period car.

BUT - if you deal in old vehicles the trade off is that you have to take number plates into account. There is no choice. You either sell the plate separately or factor its value into the resale price. What is a 'decent' dealer, Dan? One who'll ignore the actual value of a vehicle and sell it for 50% less? That does not exist. I've sold more than my fair share of plates over the years, and i can not deny that it contradicts my lifelong interest in and research of vintage vehicles. These days it's rather irrelevant as most plates have already been sold off or are age-related (the majority of my vehicles are unregistered or imported).

I blame people with modern cars. I must admit I bought my first modern car 6 months ago after a lifetime of only driving old ones, because of our new baby. (It's modern to me - 1993 - but my friends laugh when I call it modern).

Nevertheless, all you bastards with modern cars are to blame for the rape of old vehicles for their number plates. I tar you all with the same brush. As with the drug problem, if there were no drug users there would not be drug mafias and entire countries dedicated to their manufacture.
If we only drove old cars, there would be no modern porsche owners buying cherished plates to remove the tell-tale modern one that identifies its year of manufacture. Demand creates supply. Modern car owners are just speed-crazy show-offs.

Aren't forums wonderful? If something annoys you, it is a great place to make your voice heard. And your words are there, carved into cyberspace, forever. In time, 20 years on, 50 years on, folks can look back and read the forum thread and say things like "were people really worried in 2008 by things such as the number plates on cars and motorbikes when there were so many other important issues to deal with in society?" :)
Online Bicycle Museum - http://oldbike.eu

Online Cyclemaster Museum - http://Cyclemaster.co.uk

Sales: http://BuyVintage.co.uk

Bob Purton

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2008, 10:31:41 AM »
Hi Colin, Glad the mystery of the trike is solved at last, so it wasn't even a sachs engine then? ! Hope I didn't ruffle your feathers too much but I thought if someone buys that for the engine you would have a problem i.e a canceled sale on your hands and that wouldn't be to your benefit either. I notice that you haven't edited the title and listing yet, its none of my business but I think it would be a good idea for everyone if you did, guess you haven't had time yet. Managing all those listings at the same time must be a nightmare. Anyway I wish you all the best with the sales.You have a few things there that I'm jealous of!
Personally I don't give a hoot about numberplate's although I'm not in the habit of selling them, probably because most of the cars and bikes I have restored have been imported from France and Italy and have to have age related numbers on them anyway. Pardon me for saying so but your theory about the plate trade being all the fault of modern car drivers including us lot is quite ridiculous! I can only assume you meant it tongue in cheek having been backed into a corner. Firstly none of us enthusiasts to my knowledge have bought personalized plates for our modern cars. Secondly, to follow it through would mean that either all car production would have to stop so that only old high polluting cars would be available to drive which would mean that when ever a 1935 Austin seven came up for sale sixty million buyers would descend on your house to fight it out as to who the Lucky owner will be[probably a sales rep who drives from Bournemouth to Edinburgh thrice weekly!], or that new cars could continue to be produced but would have to be stored for thirty years before anyone could buy one and use it, of course by then it would have deteriorated and would have to be restored first. The more you think about it the more hilarious it gets, nice one Colin. Have you considered a career on the stage? Seriously though, I wish you well with you auctions. Cheers, Bob
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 12:29:40 PM by bobbybubble »

Jawmedead

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Number Plates
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2008, 11:05:35 AM »
Stuart,
 As an aficionado of old number plates (where on earth do you keep them?) did you know that you will be able to have your 'own plate' in December 2010 from DVLA if you are quick an get in before the 'plate boys'
Yes, ST11 ART should be available. But then, DVLA may keep it back for one of their auctions.

Dan,
A way to keep the number on your bike as non-transferable. This is what has happened to me last week. I was given my 1990 cars original 'H' number back as a non-transferable. Back in 1996 when I got the car I bought a cheap'H' plate from DVLA with my Fathers initials on to remember him by. This was assigned to my car and the original kept by DVLA. This year as I am selling the car I wanted to keep 'my Dads' number so I had it transfered to my modern scooter. This was done at my local DVLA Office but the new documents arrived from Swansea. The car now has its original number as a non-transferable just the same as older vehicles when you reclaim the number.
It does seem a long way around to keep your number non-trans. but would it work in your case as you need an non-prefix to put on your bike while DVLA 'kept' your bikes original number until you applied for it back.
Just a thought but would DVLA think, now here is a nice number to put up for auction! HELP!

Triporteur

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2008, 11:07:04 AM »
Hi Bob,

As I get older I find it hard to take very much seriously in life, especially vintage vehicles: I enjoy my hobby for relaxation not as a forum for pedantry. I don't have a problem with others getting steamed up about things. But sometimes can't resist trying to add humour to an emotional situation.

My ridiculous suggestion was not intended to stifle discussion - the previous comments made valid points - but just to try and add perspective.

There are no solutions to the issue.

A career on stage? Maybe my websites are my backdrop and ebay is my stage? :)

Have now amended the title of the mystery machine and added the email below so we can now all see that this indeed appears to be an IWL Lastenroller.

Online Bicycle Museum - http://oldbike.eu

Online Cyclemaster Museum - http://Cyclemaster.co.uk

Sales: http://BuyVintage.co.uk

blob

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Re: Mystery Machine Now For Sale
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2008, 12:08:02 PM »
Unfortunatly I'm with Dan on the No.plate issue. I was recently sent an old photo from 1959 by John Meadows, featuring a Frisky that I'm in posession of, but it was only identified as such because of it's plate. All I need to do now, is find out who the woman sitting in the car is.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 01:06:59 PM by blob »