RARE LAWIL BERLINA A4 - early 70's FOR SALE

[Bob Purton]

Hi Isetta owner. You are right, there is not much information out there. Your one looks like a very late one on account of the grill etc. Ignore modmans hype, these car can be bought very reasonably and are not all that rare especially in france, hence us all taking the mick a little. Mine cost £450, another sold at the bubblecar auction the other week for I think £1200 [the van version]. There are a lot of Fiat 500 parts on them and the BCB engine uses a lambretta electronic ignition system. There is some history of the mk and the various models covered in the Micromania book by Chris Rees. Hope this helps.

[Barry]

Bob
Thanks for the information.
I am not too worried about the price (it was no where near £4000) my offer was £1500 but thats another story
It is in very good condition but I suspect a respray at some point and a new speedo to make it look authentic.
Either this or the original spray was fairly poor.
I am happy anyway.
I just need to try to get a date of manufacture.  Before Jan 1973 and I won't have to pay tax.
Is your one on-the-road? Has it ever been registered in the UK?  If so is it normal class 4 MOT - any special requirement on seat belts and emmissions.

Any trechnical details or literature (I can scan copy & return) would be a graet help.

Regards

[blob]

Denis has a comprehensive list on Willam on his website: http://www.microcarfan.com and may know a thing or two about Lawil.

[g-o-g-g-o]

Hi
    I have one of these willam van's, This is the second one I've brought into the country from france where they were fairly common, they were produced in Italy from an assortment of parts mainly Lamberetta and Fiat 500. your car looks to be late 70's theirfore you will have to pay tax on it .
  From the look of it and the late grill I'd say it was 76 - 77, they made them between 72 -79, Autolit in America has a handbook on one for about £60, it is in French and it deals with your model as well as the van - you may find one at one the the French autojumbles, a bit cheaper than this, but you have to go to france, I have a brochure for one in my collection.
                                                                                                                                                     Mike

[Bob Purton]

Hi. My one now belongs to my neighbor, its still unregistered and I have heard of others having great difficulty in getting these later sans permis cars registered in the uk. It is running but only after replacing the electronic ignition system, it appears that this is the main reason for the large amount of nonrunners. I guessed your one had been resprayed by the antistone chip skirt painted around the edge, the original paint finish on them is  good quality, still if the mileage is correct it should be very good mechanically. I have emailed you a photo of a brochure, I dont have it anymore otherwise I would scan it for you. Cheers, Bob

[Barry]

Denis has a comprehensive list on Willam on his website: http://www.microcarfan.com and may know a thing or two about Lawil.

Thanks Blob.  That has been very helpful.
I saw a car like the one in your picture on a camp site in Northern France earlier this year.  Chateaux Des Ormes
Was it you.
I don't know much about them - tell me more.

[Barry]

Hi
    I have one of these willam van's, This is the second one I've brought into the country from france where they were fairly common, they were produced in Italy from an assortment of parts mainly Lamberetta and Fiat 500. your car looks to be late 70's theirfore you will have to pay tax on it .
  From the look of it and the late grill I'd say it was 76 - 77, they made them between 72 -79, Autolit in America has a handbook on one for about £60, it is in French and it deals with your model as well as the van - you may find one at one the the French autojumbles, a bit cheaper than this, but you have to go to france, I have a brochure for one in my collection.
                                                                                                                                                     Mike

Thanks for the information Mike.  Eny information or photo's would be great to see.  I am thinking of putting a site together so mthat the Lawil is better understood.
Has yours ever been on-the-road in England.  Any MOT problems. Any advice.
I will need to be able to date my one with some evidence or an expert opinion so that I can get an age related plate.  Is there a list of Chassis numbers anywhere?
Do you know of any Lawil Berlina's  A4 (I assume thats what my one is) in the country that I could compare chassis numbers with?  Any literature that I could borrow and scan (for a pint) would be appreciated.

Barry

[Barry]

Hi. My one now belongs to my neighbor, its still unregistered and I have heard of others having great difficulty in getting these later sans permis cars registered in the uk. It is running but only after replacing the electronic ignition system, it appears that this is the main reason for the large amount of nonrunners. I guessed your one had been resprayed by the antistone chip skirt painted around the edge, the original paint finish on them is  good quality, still if the mileage is correct it should be very good mechanically. I have emailed you a photo of a brochure, I dont have it anymore otherwise I would scan it for you. Cheers, Bob

You are in Essex Bob! - so am I
Forgive my ignorance but 'Sans permis' ?  Are there a lot of them that have never been registered, even in their native country? - perhaps used on private land / holiday camps?
I will do my best to get this one on the road.
Initially, my car did not want to start but the exhaust (and probably engine) was full of fuel.  I don't think the carb is shutting off the fuel fully and perhaps the tap has been left on under the bonnet.
It starts well now and has a fantastic spark on both plugs.  It is very erratic at low revs however.  I am told it is a Ducati engine?
As the carb looks new, I wonder if it is the right one and has the correct jets.  It is a delorto SH20 - similar to my Lambretta.  I would like to check with someone who has an identical Lawil.
I think it may be that the choke is not fully off.  I haven't had much time to have a good fiddle yet.

Is your Neighbour still talking to you?  I would like it if he could have a talk to me at some time.

My Lawil
All of the hidden places and the underside look like they have never been touched.  Underneath looks fairly untouched from new.  However there a few signs that it has done a few miles more than the speedo suggests.
I think it is a very low milage car that has been stored for most of it's life.  Perhaps it had a ding and was not used.  I think it has had an outside spray, possibly some time ago, and a new speedo to make it look even lower on the milage.
The paint finish has a few blemishes that you only get on a novice spray job.  I will soon have these sorted out.
I doubt that there is a better Lawil about (in Essex).

Barry

[Jim Janecek]

Forgive my ignorance but 'Sans permis' ?  Are there a lot of them that have never been registered, even in their native country? - perhaps used on private land / holiday camps?

Probably all of them were never registered as that was the point behind "Sans Permis" : Without Permit

The cars were designed to be used by people who did not need a driver's permit; teenagers, the elderly, drunks that had their licenses revoked or just anyone who did not want or need or could not afford a "proper" drivers license.

There are modern versions of these vehicles in Italy and France.  They either have 50cc motors in them or VERY tiny electric motors.

[Barry]

Forgive my ignorance but 'Sans permis' ?  Are there a lot of them that have never been registered, even in their native country? - perhaps used on private land / holiday camps?

Probably all of them were never registered as that was the point behind "Sans Permis" : Without Permit

The cars were designed to be used by people who did not need a driver's permit; teenagers, the elderly, drunks that had their licenses revoked or just anyone who did not want or need or could not afford a "proper" drivers license.

There are modern versions of these vehicles in Italy and France.  They either have 50cc motors in them or VERY tiny electric motors.

Thanks for that info Jim.  I have a lot to learn (and not many years left to do it in).
Sans Permis - with a 250cc engine?
I can see now that the UK may not accept the Lawil on British roads.  We will see!
Your comments are always useful - I have discovered this from the Isetta forum.
Cheers

Barry

Would anyone object if I fitted twin 40mm delortos and a couple of individual expansion chambers.
I think it should rev to at least 8,000 instead of 4,000 which should take it to 80mph (only joking)

Barry

Barry

[g-o-g-g-o]

Hi Barry
             My william has been off the road since importing it from france - these were not Sans Permis cars and vans because the smaller version had a 125cc engine and the Sans Permis had to have a 50cc or smaller petrol engine in them and some form of going forward withoiut the help of the engine ( like a pedal on the floor, or a lever).
  Crayford Conversions did sell a handfull of cars when ther first appeared in the early seventies and they were registered and on the road so perhaps you could contact them to see about getting yours registered (contact the Crayford Club) - In Italy they did have a few bigger engin cars, and I suspect yours came from Italy, I seem to remember one posted some two years ago on the Italian ebay site and it was claimed as being low milage.

  I remember I bought a French hand book at last years Retromobile Show containing imformation about my Van - whether it contains info on your car I will try and find it and see - I collect information about all Microcars.
                                                                                                                                                    Mike

[Barry]

Hi Barry
             My william has been off the road since importing it from France - these were not Sans Permis cars and vans because the smaller version had a 125cc engine and the Sans Permis had to have a 50cc or smaller petrol engine in them and some form of going forward without the help of the engine ( like a pedal on the floor, or a lever).
  Crayford Conversions did sell a handfull of cars when ther first appeared in the early seventies and they were registered and on the road so perhaps you could contact them to see about getting yours registered (contact the Crayford Club) - In Italy they did have a few bigger engine cars, and I suspect yours came from Italy, I seem to remember one posted some two years ago on the Italian eBay site and it was claimed as being low milage.

  I remember I bought a French hand book at last years Retromobile Show containing information about my Van - whether it contains info on your car I will try and find it and see - I collect information about all Microcars.
                                                                                                                                                    Mike

Mike
You have given me the best news yet.  If Crayford managed to get them on-the-road I stand much more chance of convincing the DVLA.
I will definitely need some evidence of the date of the car.  My friend, Brian Page, at Classic Assessments will be able to write a suitable letter if he has some facts to work from.
I was told that my one came from Italy and has been stored in the UK for some time.  It could be the same car.
Is there any chance that the van will be drivable in the near future?

Thanks for your help.  Whatever I find out and any literature I collect will be at your disposal.

Barry

[g-o-g-g-o]

Hi Barry
            It so happens that a neibour of mine runs a Crayford car ( It was on display at the NEC Show) and his brother is secretary of the club - when I see him I will get information from him.

  Did you Know that the RUM club can also write you a letter confirming the date of your car but they would need some concrete proof that the date your submitting was geunine.
                                                                                                                                                           Mike

[Barry]

Hi Barry
            It so happens that a neighbour of mine runs a Crayford car ( It was on display at the NEC Show) and his brother is secretary of the club - when I see him I will get information from him.

  Did you Know that the RUM club can also write you a letter confirming the date of your car but they would need some concrete proof that the date your submitting was genuine.
                                                                                                                                                           Mike

More good news Mike
Thank you very much.  I discovered that the Crayford Convertible club don't have an e-mail or web contact.  I will have to phone at a reasonable hour.

Your help is greatly appreciated.
Barry

[Bob Purton]

Hi Barry. Where abouts in Essex are you, I'm in Hornchurch. My friend who owns my old car now lives in Romford. The car is a 125cc BCB  single cylinder model. I will ask him if he minds you contacting him.   Bob