Kleinschnittger

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As seen on German eBay: http://cgi.ebay.de/Kleinschnittger-F-125_W0QQitemZ230339226078QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobile?hash=item230339226078&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[AndrewG]

Wow!  It's quite difficult to try to see how a more complex trailing arm could be made, just to connect that rubber-band suspension to the hub....

Andrew

[Peelpower]

A Kleinschnittger is a well searched after microcar. It surely will raise a high prize.
Sadly to much for me. 

[Bob Purton]

I see what you mean about the trailing arm, I had to stare at it for a while to get my head around it! Dont underestimate the efficiency of the nieman ring suspension though, it gives a suprisingly good ride.

[Jawmedead]

It looks as if one of the panels has been shot at with a gun! 

[Chris Thomas]

Dear Bob

The clever thing about the suspension units are that they are basically the same units used at the back and the front and from left to right. This make for an economy of scale for a small manufacturer. Very clever.

Chris Thomas

[marcus]

Ah, it makes sense now!

[Bob Purton]

The system is still used on french trailer. At first I couldn't figure out why cars with these rings didn't just bounce up and down undamped like Bonds do with the indispension type of arrangement and also why they didn't just use one single thick rubber ring. How it was explained to me was that because the ring set is made up of concentric rings reducing in size fitting inside each other,  when stretched they are stretching at a different rate to each other which creates surface friction between the bands causing a damping effect. Does that make sense or sound like a load of old Tunnocks? Whatever the case it works and an Inter will glide along leaving the pilot fairly unruffled as opposed to a  Schmitt which will throw you out of your seat every time you hit a bump!

[marcus]

Also as the bands have different sizes, elasticity and recoil speed, this will minimise the chance of a standing wave

[AndrewG]

Does that make sense or sound like a load of old Tunnocks?

It probably not strictly untrue, but I would be staggered if it had a significant effect.  Rubber has quite significant hysteresis damping and so rubber suspensions do not need as much damping as steel - you can remove the dampers on a rubber-cone Mini and it remains driveable, if not exactly pleasant.

Using the same suspension arm at all four corners explains a lot about that trailing arm design - thanks.  However I'm not sure twice the volume of complex arms will cost less to make than half the volume of two designs of simple arms.  I could think of a relevant sentence involving the words 'baby' and 'bath water'....

Andrew

[Chris Thomas]

Hi Guys

I had a french trailer with rubber band suspension ( I probably have the rubber bands in my garage still) and seeing the Inter and the Kleinschnittger with the same system I decided to research the system on Google. So I put in "Rubber suspension". I know a lot more uses for black latex rubber than I ever expected to find, and only one that taked about rubber band suspension with wheeled vehicles, and that was for a motor bike.

This form of rubber in tension suspension system  seems to have gone out of fashion in favour of rubber in compression, but why? Have I missed something?

Chris Thomas

[Bob Purton]

Just a couple of thought on the last two posts, my Messerschmitt has rubber in compression suspension and if you took off the shock absorbers it would be undrivable. Just thought of a few more vehicles that use nieman rings, Isetta Velam, Avolette, Bernadette scooter. I think the unusual design of the swing arms on the klienwotsit is probably because the tubing used will be very thin to save weight, my Inter likewise has a over fussy swing arm for the same reason, remember it was aircraft engineering design that went into many of these babies. Chris, being an X Remorque Franc trailer owner do you know if the rings are still available anywhere in the UK? I sent to France for the last lot and paid an arm and a leg.

[Chris Thomas]

Dear Bob

It was many years ago that I had the ERKA trailer and because I could not get any spares then I built a new trailer on a sprite caravan chassis and threw the other trailer away.

Whilst I am not an expert in the supply of rubber goods I can safely say that I do not know where you can get Neiman Rings in the UK or for that matter in France.

Perhaps we could corner the market and start manufacturing suitable components. Do you think we could get a development grant from the government? Do you think Alex Moulton would come out of retirment and help us?

Chris Thomas

[Bob Purton]

Not much chance of that Chris! I asked because there is always the danger of them becoming unavailible so thought I had better buy a spare set . Have you seen the glut of JZR's on ebay? Three at once! I rather fancy the red Guzzi one but those mud gaurds would have to come off! and the black plastic mirrors.

[Chris Thomas]

Dear Bob

The JZR Bus symdrome, wait for ages and three come along.

The green one looks the most interesting, especially as it has a propper windscreen and a trailer, and for me is a long version.

The front mudguards are not so bad but I agree about the side mirrors.

Regarding the Neiman Loops. The material can not be too unique and is just the need to get the right sizes to go inside each other and for different hanger centres. It is almost like buying a large rubber hose and cutting into loops of the right width. The issue of supply must affect all Inter and Kleinschnittger and Velam cars. I wonder what other owners have done to address this problem?

Chris Thomas