Author Topic: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE  (Read 9464 times)

chrispbug

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SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« on: March 04, 2010, 09:35:08 PM »
Words come to me tonight that a friend has found a Schmitt TG500 engine local to me. Apparently the engine is complete and ready to go but until I see it I can't confirm this.
More info to follow...
Seen the engine now but the owner is adamant it's NOT for sale.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 09:48:48 PM by chrispbug »

Big Al

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2010, 09:25:40 AM »
I know the feeling! I have numerious people wanting to buy out my project but never at a value to induce me to accept, partly because I would like to do it once I have cleared the decks of other things I want to do less. Getting there. The engine is the bit that is probobly not going to get remade. I have been lucky enough to fall across genuine identites so I can realistically build a recreation of a genuine car or two, given another complete engine, which is better than a genuine fake! This is a bit of a touchy subject. Your chum is aware that there is a list of Tiger chassis and engines with Heiko Zimmerman which notes known parts as well as lost cars/parts. If the FMR engine number is Tiger and matches the register you can find out the chassis it was matched too and if it still exists. Note sure where you go after that as the more original the car and papertrail the more 'value' the resulting car. I imagine that my planned recreation would market some 15% - 20% under a matching genuine matching number car but my only interest in that figure is not to spend more than that on doing the project not because I want to sell it. I think it would be very easy to spend more than the car is worth building one from an engine.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Peelpower

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2010, 10:00:52 AM »
Words come to me tonight that a friend has found a Schmitt TG500 engine local to me. Apparently the engine is complete and ready to go but until I see it I can't confirm this.
More info to follow...
Seen the engine now but the owner is adamant it's NOT for sale.

Could you please find out its engine No.? Would like to put it on Heiko Zimmermanns TG register.
Thank you

chrispbug

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 06:33:53 PM »
I'm currently laid up with 2 broken feet. Not as bad as it sounds really but broken toes on left foot and serious problems with my right foot so am housebound for a couple of weeks. Will update about this engine as soon as I get out and about again.

Jim Janecek

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 07:41:01 PM »
hmmm sounds like someone could be in the market for a good Invalid Carriage.

chrispbug

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 08:10:00 PM »
No I've a Bond Bug. No need for an invalid carriage...

Stuart Cyphus

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 11:07:09 PM »
 What, not even one of my ones Chris?  ;) I could fit a Tiger lump to it if you like though I might have to fight my way thrugh a pack of Dalmations to do it......  :D

Big Al

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 09:49:25 AM »
I did not know Stirling Moss had a Bond Bug. Topical humour non Brits.

Question, could an AC type 70 be quicker than a Bond Bug? Probobly only because of the auto drive mech, no. A worrying thought!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 02:30:40 PM »
If they are the constantly variable type I would say quite possibly! I had a daf once which would beat just about everything away from the lights up to about 30 mph due to the CVT. Mind you just ordinary Reliants are pretty quick off the mark too. Has anyone ever used a type 70 power unit in a TG500 rep?

marcus

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2010, 05:53:36 PM »
I had a Volvo 343 with the Daf Variomatic CVT, as you say Bob, great initial acceleration. Not good on a long motorway drive though because it needed about 3 overdrive ratios!
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Big Al

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2010, 07:09:38 PM »
The varomatic belt will beat the need for gearchanges but the Bug has a nice gearbox and is quasi sporty. Where it losses out is clearly the IC is governed to a top speed and the belt creates a lot of drag. There are some mods that can be done but a Bug can probobly happily do 70 and return around 45 mpg if working properly. The IC will be more like 30 mpg! It is not what it was designed for. However despite its narrow track I think it would out handle a Bug so it would be interesting down a B road. Surprised? All the weight other than the driver is low so that means the centre of gravity is too. The car is centrally ballanced, the Bug is not. The weight is over the rear axle and I am told the front does not let go first. So I think a bit of chassis/suspension adjustment would produce something that might prove very stable and predictable. I found the Bug's handling fragile at best and I would not want to be on the limit as I do not trust it.

Isetta head on the pillow time Bob. Yes actually it would be a fine unit for a TG500 replica thingy but on a proper gearbox I think. Less power lose and 36 BHP free to apply to the road after some minor tweaks.

Mmm Daf! Had a pick up, 33 and 44. Great cars and linked with Goggomobil, the Bentley of bubblecars, vaguely of course.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2010, 09:46:31 PM »
As you mentioned Goggo's, if I were building a TG rep [oh look another isetta head on the bed!]  a goggo unit would be my choice. A tuned/injected 300 I think, forget the 400, you cant find them and they have some design faults anyway. The goggo twin would hang out the back end just like a real TG engine and would be a superbly engineered unit which cannot be said for the other one.

Big Al

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2010, 09:09:42 AM »
Several folks have done similar. Karl Kleeman has created one. The prototype was meant to have the Goggo unit in it. The 300cc is not that common actually though it shares much with the 250cc. The 400cc unit can be found, I might be getting a couple more. The problem with the pistons can be resolved I am not aware of any other problem with the engine that is not common with the others. I think a Tiger really could use quite a bit more power but it depends what one is doing with it of course.
Meanwhile those with real Tigers get miffed with various copies etc. Just had that conversation with Jules. Will we get to AC Cobra status where having a real one is so rare that everyone thinks it is a kit?
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2010, 09:58:19 AM »
Oh, I do hope so!!  ;)  apparently 400's have a weakness with the clutch too, ask John Bannell. I know 300's are not common but a 300 piston/barrel kit is very common. As my top secret project has ground to a halt due to powers behond my control I may do the TG rep myself or maybe a Dart.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 11:38:01 AM by Bob Purton »

Big Al

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Re: SCHMITT TG500 ENGINE
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2010, 06:38:51 PM »
I never had a problem with the clutch but then I am not putting the torque John is through his. As I understand it the problem seemed to be lateral play and getting it to release/engage progressively. The 400 in standard form is pretty detuned. The clutch is the same for all but the diaphram was modified for the 400cc to give more tension. This suggests a production bodge. Like I say it depends what you are doing as to what needs to be done. John's hobby is posing engineering problems and solving them uprating the car to a better level of effciency. Are you really going to drive the car that hard? I thought about this and decided to get a Saab Bullnose which will take a bit of welly and reward the efforts with a much more usable result - and the benifit of wailing while doing it, see 'Saab singing in the woods' on youtube. Nice.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs