Be the envy of all your friends

[steven mandell]

Excuse me for getting back to the topic of the new Peels.  Since I've seen pictures of them in front of Ripley's Museums, I'd have to say that they have at least started delivering their contracted quota as Jim mentioned earlier.
But I am wondrous as to why they have not responded to 2 separate inquires from myself regarding wheel and tire sizes and whether they are running hydraulic or manual brakes/ any other suspension mods from the originals.  They clearly have much bigger (too big looking) wheels and tires than the originals, and it is hard to imagine not using hydraulic brakes in this day and age.
I also have a selfish, already mentioned reason for my interest as Andy Carter is building parts for a Trident body and metal kit that I have ordered presently, and I am open to the possibilities of improving on the original's parameters as long as it does not violate my own aesthetics of what a period correct Peel Trident could have looked like.

[Big Al]

Chum has just been to test the cars. They are electric and rely on the inertia damping effect of the motor for brakes, therefore no brakes are supplied in the form of a brake on the wheels. In maneuvering the car he let it slip backward on a slope of the underground car park as seen in the official video and it nearly turned over so I would suggest the suspension is not modified in any way that might be usefull to your idealised Peel over the original underpinnings Andy might be able to offer. These new Peels are aimed at a pretty narrow market I think and they need some development to successfully break out of that bracket of use (or uselessness dependant on your viewpoint).  The original versions are likewise limited by their engineering. I am not sure the reality of a daily Peel is really feasible without significantly compromising the entire concept of the car. It is what it is, one of those successfully negotiated cul de sacs of design that had no real market like the Sinclear C5, as well as quite a few Microcars etc. That is why we love them. Trouble with love is it can become infatuation and judgement can be lost. I fear many modified Peels are going to fall into this category with rather mixed outcomes most of which are bad. It has to be the real thing or move on to another love for me I think.

[Bob Purton]

Are we to assume that they will not be road legal then?

[Peelpower]

The Peel mafia agrees, they are not road legal. Neither in the UK nor in Germany !
But even a genuine Peel is not easy to legalize in Germany. All i have to do is, to use a Moped trader plate.
This is ALMOST legal 

[Stuart Cyphus]

 They are electric and rely on the inertia damping effect of the motor for brakes, therefore no brakes are supplied in the form of a brake on the wheels.

 These "new" Peels as they stand, if that info is correct, are therefore almost certainly not legal for UK highway use, as all road-going vehicles, including electric vehicles, require at least two, independent means of braking, one of which at least has to be mechanical & direct-acting on either a wheel or the transmission. It's all there in the Construction & Use regulations.  I did hear something that they were trying to take advantage of Class 3 (8mph) mobility scooter regulations, but again it would fail misarably on that too, for the same braking regulations apply and also, anything alluding to mobility regulations may only officially be driven by a person with a disability.

 So what are they actully making? A large garden runaround is what the evidence seems to point at. For my money I'll be going elsewhere...   (The Mafia knows what I mean, doesn't it Ferdi)  

[Bob Purton]

This makes the whole thing completely lame!  Rather reinforces my first impression of the two 'entrepreneurs' when I saw them on Dragons den, I wonder if James Khan knew he was investing in nothing other than a kiddies toy for running around the garden?

[Peelpower]

[ So what are they actully making? A large garden runaround is what the evidence seems to point at. For my money I'll be going elsewhere...   (The Mafia knows what I mean, doesn't it Ferdi)  
[/quote]

For sure the Peel mafia knows Mr. Stu

[Big Al]

I believe braking using the electric motor would be legal. Unigate used it for years. If it is arranged well it is actually a very powerfull retardation. Means a chunky boy on the rear wheel. Root has quoted the book definition but it is not quite the catch all it sounds. Messerschmitts do not have two ways to brake. It has a foot brake with a handbrake lock on it. That is one brake method really isn't it, since the cable or shoe mech is the most likely bit to fail. Pigging scary when a cable fails at 40 to, I can tell you! Land Rover has only one braking method in motion as the handbrake clamps on the propshaft. Apply that at 60 mph and you go upside down or at least break the drive system. I recall James Matthews (now paints F1 Racing cars) doing just that down the farm into a muck heep attempting a handbrake turn. Very funny but potentially dangerous. Therefore there would only need to be a parking brake. That is pretty simple to fix up on something that does about 10-15 miles an hour. The cars they have as demo vehicles are as supplied to Ripley who I do not, I think, intend to run them other than as advertising their business. So I would not jump to conclusions.
A second issue is if the car with the performance currently available is something you would want to drive on a public road. I think not. However given, say, 20 orders for a road going version at £12,500 each I would humbly suggest the budget is present to do some modifications to the design to create a fully spec version that could take to the road with some credability. That is good business sense if you can pull it off. Why invest your own money on development if you do not know there is a market. I believe three wheelers now require a rear brake on a trailing wheel, so that can be a shoe hand brake from a scooter or something. The electric motor can do the driving brake. It maybe that there will be a requirement to have the handbrake on the two front wheel if the rear is providing the driving brake. One would need to consult the bible. Personally I would not go down that route but I am not making the cars.

[steven mandell]

Al- Great insights as usual, and not needing decoding which is unusual. Thanks for both.
DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT SIZE WHEELS AND TIRES THE NEW PEELS ARE USING???

[AndrewG]

Nowadays, if you want to make a one-off vehicle yourself or start low volume production (<300/yr), the vehicle will need to pass IVA - Individual Vehicle Approval.  See IVA technical requirements if you want to scare yourself.  Passing an MoT test is something for babies and invalids, by comparison.

[Big Al]

I have been told the parameters are simpler if the vehicle is to comply with bike/moped/quad legislation. Of course that is size, cc and speed restricted, which would be why it is simpler. This may not be what some potential owners are thinking of - Peel GTi or what have you - burn baby burn! I have to say if you go for the bike/moped/quad option building an accurate replica that could gain Historic Registration is actually probably easier given that your end product is not going to be greatly better than the original Peel! I worked out two ways to register this but, of course, I cannot tell you how to as I have to preserve site integrity and my route to registration should I need it. I assume exported cars will normally require a British ID to gain registration in there new country. This can be date sensitive as well. So this accreditation issue is something of a drag.

[marcus]

When I made my Drum Car I looked a little into the regulations and designed it to conform (vaguely!) to the rules governing Electric Bicycles and Tri-cycles. Despite having Horizontally Opposed Twin electric motors, its power is modest, and down-geared, so that it cannot get up to the 18 kph limit, (except when going down steps!).
Although it differs somewhat form electric bikes, if I ever do get stopped by the Police I can demonstrate that its performance is well within legal limits. This means that it is effectively legal on roads, pavements, parks, civic centres, supermarkets and shops, all of which it HAS driven in!

[milnes]

Looks like they just intended to create a museum piece for the new Peels

[Big Al]

In what way are Segways band from public use, other than they fall off cliffs? Surely they are a sort of electric moped. Mind you screwing number plate on your 'arris would bring the tears to your eyes. They look very interesting but once again a bit expensive to rush off and buy.