Author Topic: Pair of Tri Techs  (Read 13169 times)

Stuart Cyphus

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Jonathan Poll

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  • Nobel 200 Anorak
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Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
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Big Al

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Re: Pair of Tri Techs
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2011, 11:01:21 am »
Again.

You could choose your frontal mouldings laterly. Does not avoid the appaling front suspension on the Schmitt other than better headlights to view the hedge you are going into. Never driven a Zetta but most times I have seen one it either fell over or failed to work! Can I pass please.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Pair of Tri Techs
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2011, 12:09:08 pm »
Yes, do you remember at the Bath rally about five years ago there was an elderly couple with a Zetta, they were very proud of it but it konked out on the run not far from the starting gate! I believe you stopped to lend a hand. You would think that with the engine in the center they would be more stable, apparenlty not, maybe its a suspension issue.

milnes

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Re: Pair of Tri Techs
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2011, 10:10:07 pm »
Did the schmitt have the same tipping problem as the Zetta?
Do they have reverse on them?

I take it Tri tech isn't the same maker as Andys modern micros?

Asking a few questions because i did think of having a punt on the Schmitt but know nothing about them.
I need to stop buying!

Bob Purton

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Re: Pair of Tri Techs
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 11:28:10 pm »
 I saw one flip at low speed on grass at one of the Kingham MOC rallies a few years back. No they do not have reverse. Best buy a real one.

Big Al

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Re: Pair of Tri Techs
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 12:50:43 pm »
I take it Tri tech isn't the same maker as Andys modern micros?

I can here spluttering from Nottingham from here! No Andy Carter has nothing to do with Tri Tech and I often wondered what he really thought of all the shenanigans.

The Tri Tech Schmitt is very easy to turn over since the suspension geometry is not well designed using as it does an Indespension type rubber in torsion trailer unit mounted sideways. On that is mounted mini brakes with the kingpin to far inboard for efficient use. It breaks all suspension geometry rules without the Colin Chapman effect of working well! So like any trike of that layout it can be made to tip, it also does it randomly as the directional stability is, frankly, brown trousers at about 40-45 mph. Once it starts weaving the non progressive suspension tends to go out of balance, pulling on the steering due to the arrangement compressing the suspension alternately thus magnifying the steering pull and over you go despite steering dead ahead. I have had 4 TT Schmitts, two scrapped one by turn over and the other fire, one turned over, repaired and sold on and the last for a customer for whom I modified the car for so it was safe at 55mph. He has lost his nerve though I think. Another turned over near Andover and was impounded by the Police back when they were being made. Around that time all went silent for TT. By all means buy one but be aware it is a compromised machine for driving. If not for driving why own it? Alternatively save up for a real one.

Less experience of Zettas in action as they refuse to manage to work and yes it took an hour to retrieve the Zetta from that narrow hill near Bath. It might even be the same car that is the one for sale. The problem was keeping the drive chain in tension. As for rolling, I think most Zettas are to powerfull and on radials so it is all to easy to reach tipping point without any warning. Though one rolled as it lost drive on a Hill and turned over rolling back while the drive paniced looking for the problem and brake. This would suggest the drive train assembly is not robust enough for the task as that is at least two cars having the same prob.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

milnes

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Re: Pair of Tri Techs
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2011, 09:55:54 pm »
So who made the Tri Tech Schmitts and why was there no attention paid to the geometry of the Chassis/suspension?

I take it Andys modern micros are better set up?
I need to stop buying!

Big Al

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Re: Pair of Tri Techs
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 09:50:34 am »
Tri Tech made Tri Tech Schmitts in Bamber Bridge, Preston. The suspension set up, who knows? The Tri Tech partnership failed in the main over arguments over quality issues I understand. As with any business you need product to go out of the door but one partner clearly had concerns, the other wanted sales to get a return on investment. The designer/constructor is adamant his set up is as good as FMR and I admit it is a clever bit of lateral thinking but beyond that a study of geometry and use support the fact FMR have a far better arrangement. The daft thing was at the time TT were developing the kit Russell Church and Brian Perry were working on the replacement suspension and arms to FMR design - the same units are available today. These were offered to TT but they reffused as they were convinced their design was better - (cheaper?).  In theory you could convert a TT to FMR but in practice unless the TT was cheap or in bits it is a classic 'I would not start from there' as you need to strip the car, buy and build a front crossmember box section and mount it correctly for geometry and strength. Then mount FMR front suspension and steering rods. Now you need to decide if you have hydraulic brakes - create and mount on the FMR kingpins or go standard FMR cable - in which case you need to change/make a pedal assembly to suit. Then put the TT back together and find the optimum set up which is not perhaps going to be the same as a real Schmitt.
  Then you need to modify the rear engine mountings........... etc etc.

  You can see that a real car might actually be easier even if it is a bit rough.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs