Author Topic: Blackjack for sale  (Read 10808 times)


Chris Thomas

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 07:16:51 PM »
Dear Bob

I like the 2x2 bonnet support stay. Very classy.

A future classic Microcar

Chris Thomas

Bob Purton

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2011, 09:19:38 PM »
Do any kit cars ever become classic? I dont know as I'm not into kit cars unlike yourself chris, I just like the lines of these. I dont even consider them to be microcars, just three wheeler sports cars. Not mad on the colour of this one though.

Rob Dobie

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2011, 11:19:02 PM »
And there was me thinking you were making a kit car!!  ;D
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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2011, 08:29:03 AM »
Do any kit cars ever become classic? I dont know as I'm not into kit cars unlike yourself chris, I just like the lines of these. I dont even consider them to be microcars, just three wheeler sports cars. Not mad on the colour of this one though.

In a way, yes. Mini Marcos, Ginetta etc are on the cusp.
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Chris Thomas

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2011, 08:56:28 AM »
Dear Bob

If the car falls into the Microcar classification, then it should not matter if they are assembled in a factory or in your garage. Most  restored cars are re assembled in the owners garage. What difference should that make.

As far as classics are concerned no kit car will ever obtain the classic status of say a Messerschmitt or a Peel, but some are more worthy of being preserved than others, that were just rubbish. Most kit cars were over engineered in parts and under engineered in others, misconceived and often ugly to boot. But some were technically very interesting but failed because there was no market for them, or were not marketed correctly, while some have gone on to become small UK manufacturers in their own right, like the Caterham 7, Ginetta and Marcos

My experience with a black jack was that I could not get into it, so I have never driven one, but you would be OK.

Chris Thomas.

Bob Purton

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2011, 06:28:31 PM »
No change there then Chris. :D On reflection I guess the Triking has made classic status, virtually impossible to find for sale these days. About Blackjacks, I wasn't suggesting that they are not microcars because they are kits, a Unicar could be bought in kit form and I believe some Friskies also were but all the morganesk three wheelers, BRA, JZR, Triking, Pembleton etc all seem to me to be in a different class, more like a trike class. The parameters of what constitutes a microcar have been debated many times, I am still of the opinion that its up to the individual to decide what is a microcar, and for me 2CV's and there deriviants are not, no more than a Reliant Regal is. Just my opinion. Others will disagree.   

Big Al

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 08:48:20 AM »
My view on this is based on the belief that there is such a thing as a light car. A 2cv is a light car. There is nothing about a 2cv that is genuinely micro despite it being minimalist in many ways. See also DAF, Fiat 600, Trabant and so on. With microcars tending to be collectable it is the light cars that represent a source of excellent cheap classic fun. Of course there is a blurred edge but in essence a microcar is minimalist to a far greater degree than a lightcar and of course, small. Often too small to be useful in size or engine or both. Tricycles have there own following which splices into Micro/Light cars. To me a Reliant is a light car not a microcar. That does not mean I do not like them or degrade them, it just is. Likewise kit cars splice. There are very few kit cars that are microcars though. Most are light cars with trikes being small in accommodation by choice of wheel-plan rather than by other design constraints. Many micros are trikes because of reduced tax, drag and power source/engineering choices to make lightweight cars. There is a subtle difference.

The only real issue which I wonder about is that Microcar Rallies are tending to field more Light cars and less used Microcars in direct proportion to the alleged value of said microcars. I can only assume, therefore, that a differing type of person is taking ownership of the Microcars even if it is through age, though collections of cars reduce the pool of available cars to go to each event unless the collectors choose to buy small car transporters. It is therefore not surprising that quite a few cars in use at events called microcar rallies are actually light cars/kitcars since they keep up with traffic and are cheaper to buy and maintain in many cases. You can see where this situation can lead in respect of Microcar rallies really being microcar rallies as they used to be. 'Herds of micros sweep majestically across the plane' seems to be slightly less likely these days.

As to if kitcars are to be classic. Yes they are. Look at the 50's specials which are now becoming rare collectables with quite bashed about modified ones being returned to 'traditional' period form. They are not worth a great deal and the scene is very like that of the early Burford days in Micros. Where is their rally, Burford! Attend and find a group of nutters who are really into these things with great knowledge. They have the same outcast attitude from years of ridicule from mainstream classic car types. All rather refreshing in fact. The early kitcars are on the move and certainly classic motor sport varieties are becoming very expensive. It is area of great interest to me as I dabbled in kitcars. Get Filbys purple covered book on kitcars and just about every on in there is a collectable. Perhaps part of the attraction to me is that it is a very hands on hobby, as was microcars, because it is hard and/or expensive to buy in the skills to turn a car into a genuinely usable machine. Especially when it has little residual value. These folk have interesting tales to tell and technical know how. Collectors can be interesting but can also be totally none grubby folk with no technical skills. I begin to drift from being able to be fully connected to their interest as I am primarily a fiddler over a collector or driver.
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Bob Purton

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 12:35:07 PM »
Yep. I go along with all that Al.

richard

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2011, 08:00:48 PM »
so do i al . but what is it about Reliants ! i just cannot get interested in them at all - APART from those Mark I's and then the really very nice indeed jelly mould Mark II's - in fact is it just the later cars that don't seem interesting to the majority of micro owners ?
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Big Al

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2011, 10:08:01 AM »
so do i al . but what is it about Reliants ! i just cannot get interested in them at all - APART from those Mark I's and then the really very nice indeed jelly mould Mark II's - in fact is it just the later cars that don't seem interesting to the majority of micro owners ?

If we all liked or loathed the same things it would be a boring old world - oh modern cars, yawn. My concern is that someone should love every car even if I do not. Allegro, never saw it but they do. Reliants less so but I do not wish to own one, even the friendly round type. I think Micro types perhaps accuse them of helping to kill off the bubblecars by being a better purchase. As such hard to justify but the feeling does not go away!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Chris Thomas

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 10:24:18 AM »
Dear Friends

I am amazed that nobody has put in a bid for this car, Usually somebody has a go.  It will be interesting to see if it comes back on again.

Chris Thomas

Bob Purton

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2011, 10:58:28 AM »
Maybe it was the colour that put folks off or the starting price with reserve?

Big Al

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2011, 08:36:46 AM »
Maybe it was that there are quite a few 'genuine' Morgan replicas for sale at that or more money. A 500/650cc Honda lump sounds more exciting than a 2CV unit. With all this choice of modern trikes the fewer people with it cannot decide were they are going to spend there money to gain the best deal. Never give the customer a choice! I would also suggest the market is softening now. Crap sells, MInters sell - but not on eBay normally unless underprice, see classified for them. The stuff in the middle, hard work.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Daniel Rodd

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Re: Blackjack for sale
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2011, 08:56:09 AM »
Reliants remain the only affordable car from the "bubblecar" era,and even then prices have doubled from what i used to pay a few years ago,and as such have their own following,unless you have thousands in the bank and like to trailer things everywhere,micro ownership is beyond reach of the majority of those like myself interested in them

The Mini killed off the bubbles,the Reliant catered for those that hadnt got a car licence after they had gone.im quite pleased however that the Reliant outlived the mini by a few months ;D