Author Topic: RIP DynaStarts  (Read 4693 times)

marcus

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RIP DynaStarts
« on: July 14, 2011, 03:57:18 pm »
Yup, they had their day those funny old Dynastart devices. Copper Windings on an iron shaft in a magnetic core spin when you connect them to electricity, or generate electricity when you spin them, add an electrical control and you get 2 components for 1. They were widely used on scooters, bubble and micro cars, and Invalid Carriages during the 50s and 60s  then apparently disappeared without trace, and no vehicle maker ever again thought to combine the two modes in a single component.

Ah, but they did!

Yesterday a mechanic in our yard called me over to have a look at a Citroen C3 he had in for other work, but he got shocked by the noise when he went to start it, and thought something else had gone wrong while he was doing his work on it. Alright, it really is an "AlternaStart", but our favourite little electrical Pals* are back!

(*As on Jawas and Velorexes, pun intended)
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Bob Purton

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Re: RIP DynaStarts
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2011, 05:39:10 pm »
Thats interesting Marcus. I wonder if its a good or a bad thing, just thinking of accessability, brush replacement[I assume they still have brushes?] etc.
By the way how are things in the yard post fire?

marcus

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Re: RIP DynaStarts
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 06:01:42 pm »
He let me try starting it once too, and it sounds and feels very odd in a modern car to not get that sudden clunk of bendix, but the gradual acceleration into life. There is a flat drive belt which seems to follow a fairly convoluted route, but does look reasonably accessible, at least by modern car standards!

Thanks for asking Bob, after the fire we had no electricity for 3 weeks, a huge, tough and nasty jog digging the trench for the new cable, then filling it, then we had floods in the building during a deluge, then our homeHub failed completely for a month before the new one arrived. The old one had been failing for ages and we kept asking BT for new ones, were promised deliveries, but they never arrived, the lies, stalling and B.S. from BT were unbelievable, but no other company wants to spend any money installing a 20 meter cable from the street to us! Apparently a lot of the problem was that other people had owned the building before us so they could not deliver! they had occupiers going back to WW1 on their records, but we were the first ever to have broadband, and are long-term phone account customers, but BT had this old info and that messed it all up, and we had many hours of shouting on the phone!

Anyway, I then had a short and much-needed break in Cornwall, one of the best places in the world. Then I got back and have been working very hard on my new and now rather delayed CD which is now very nearly finished, to be completed soon after a new "toy" arrives tomorrow. I have done almost no recording for a year, so I am LOVING it!
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Chris Thomas

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Re: RIP DynaStarts
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 09:10:33 pm »
Dear Marcus and Bob

All electric motors will produced electricity if the armature is turned, so with the right form of AC motor it can be set up to act as an alternator or a motor. It can also be done with a DC motor but is not as smooth. All that is needed is the switch over circuit.

This technology has been around for a long time. My Honda Insight has it built into the engine  in place of the fourth cylinder on the crank shaft, next to the clutch/flywheel. This means that when I am in nutral the engine stops, and when I press the clutch the electric motor starts the engine. When I brake the electric motor acts as a generator and produces power to feed the battery, The same when the engine is on overrun or if the battery is very low. If I need extra power the motor kicks back in and provides smooth torque power at low revs to the petrol engine for accellerating or pulling up hills in a high gear.

Coaches and trucks use similar systems to provide additional breaking by getting a powerful electric motor to act as a break by getting the electric motor to try and turn in the opposite direction.

If you look on the internet there are some American engineers who will tell you how to add a big electric motor to your car engine to act as a hybrid power scource along with additional batteries, to get more miles to the US gallon.

You will see more and more stop start technology being built into modern small cars as the persuit of more miles per gallon gets ever more important. These is just sensible use of components to do two jobs.

Chris Thomas

 

marcus

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Re: RIP DynaStarts
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 09:20:52 pm »
Cheers Squire, yes I was chatting to Goggo earlier about this, and he said Yaris also use this, again as you say for engine stop and start at idle.

Local hero Michael Faraday invented electric motors. Where would we be without them?!
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Jonathan Poll

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Re: RIP DynaStarts
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 09:29:07 pm »
Yup, they had their day those funny old Dynastart devices. Copper Windings on an iron shaft in a magnetic core spin when you connect them to electricity, or generate electricity when you spin them, add an electrical control and you get 2 components for 1. They were widely used on scooters, bubble and micro cars, and Invalid Carriages during the 50s and 60s  then apparently disappeared without trace, and no vehicle maker ever again thought to combine the two modes in a single component.

Ah, but they did!

Yesterday a mechanic in our yard called me over to have a look at a Citroen C3 he had in for other work, but he got shocked by the noise when he went to start it, and thought something else had gone wrong while he was doing his work on it. Alright, it really is an "AlternaStart", but our favourite little electrical Pals* are back!

(*As on Jawas and Velorexes, pun intended)

Lets just hope that thye will make new schmitt dynastarts! Those are probably the hardest parts to find! We have a load, but thye are untested, and probably dont work, because of the rust... Most of the other parts you can get new, or second hand, but there the problem...

Jonathan
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

Big Al

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Re: RIP DynaStarts
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 09:38:56 pm »
, but our favourite little electrical Pals* are back!

(*As on Jawas and Velorexes, pun intended)

PAL for active life! Pulling the hand starter in my case.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Big Al

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Re: RIP DynaStarts
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 09:48:29 pm »

Lets just hope that thye will make new schmitt dynastarts! Those are probably the hardest parts to find! We have a load, but thye are untested, and probably dont work, because of the rust... Most of the other parts you can get new, or second hand, but there the problem...

Jonathan

I have Basil's (Sachs trained bubblecar mechanic from Oxford) testing box for black box and dynostarter. No idea who made it, probably him, but it is all fitted into an old Dansette case. That is sort of appropriate in a way for a bit of tuning. As the man would have said 'That's a nice bit of tackle!'
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs