Author Topic: road legal p50 from bambycars  (Read 52609 times)

richard

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2011, 12:55:55 pm »
 :D funny enough al i was going to post exactly that !!

ITS NOT JUST AL ! my exact thoughts :D
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NickPoll

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2011, 04:38:31 pm »
Looks brilliant. I wish I had the need to buy another toy for the garage, but I should be selling, not buying. I'm sure this will bring down the over inflated price the originals. Please don't compare them with Ferraris.
Messerschmitt Tiger 500, KR201 roadster, 1955 KR200, 1958 KR200, 1959 KR200, 1964 KR200, Nobel 200, Morgan Super Sports, Goggo Coupe, Isetta 300, Velorex 350, Bond mk D, Lomax.

Jonathan Poll

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2011, 06:15:26 pm »
Permission to giggle madly. I am glad I did not bother going into building my own replicas as for the effort involved it is easier to buy one of these! Someone had to do it and now they have confirming my estimation of making the investment and backing out. What price a real Peel now I wonder? I look forward to seeing the car in the flesh.

So as of today one can go out and but a proper road legal Peel get in and drive in with petrol propulsion. I recall buying my real one for roughly the same price of one of these and actually though i was going mad.

What price a real Peel?  What price a perfect copy Picasso vs Picasso, Rothko vs Rothko, Mondrian vs Mondrian?     Well an exact in every detail toolroom copy Ferrari California is £350k vs £4m.   A Lynx D brand new tool room is 350k vs 4m.  You do the math....    



People buy the sports cars to show off, and make the most of them, that means race them.

Peels are virtually undriveable for proper use, just for fun, so an original is no way near what you expect, as my dad says, I think repros are bringing the price down, since you can get an exact copy for a fraction of the price!
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

Bob Purton

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2011, 07:15:58 pm »
And I thought Bamby had been killed off?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WungSzKum3s


It is not just me Stuart!!!!

Bambi was killed by Thumper in the remake by Quinton Tarrentino wasn't he, Bob


Dont bring my Thumper into it!! ;D ;D ;D  I guess Thumper would murder a Bamby in a road comparison test . Lets hope the lastest offerings from Bamby cars are a little better!

wilksie

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2011, 08:24:09 pm »
I had a sneaky look around Alan Evans' garage recently. With his permission of course. These are great guys and I admire their dedication and tenacity. The products are, well, world class. I'll start saving for my deposit.
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P50

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2011, 10:14:17 pm »
Permission to giggle madly. I am glad I did not bother going into building my own replicas as for the effort involved it is easier to buy one of these! Someone had to do it and now they have confirming my estimation of making the investment and backing out. What price a real Peel now I wonder? I look forward to seeing the car in the flesh.

So as of today one can go out and but a proper road legal Peel get in and drive in with petrol propulsion. I recall buying my real one for roughly the same price of one of these and actually though i was going mad.

What price a real Peel?  What price a perfect copy Picasso vs Picasso, Rothko vs Rothko, Mondrian vs Mondrian?     Well an exact in every detail toolroom copy Ferrari California is £350k vs £4m.   A Lynx D brand new tool room is 350k vs 4m.  You do the math....    



People buy the sports cars to show off, and make the most of them, that means race them.

Peels are virtually undriveable for proper use, just for fun, so an original is no way near what you expect, as my dad says, I think repros are bringing the price down, since you can get an exact copy for a fraction of the price!


Like fake TG's make the bone fide TG's come down in price? 

Since when has a doppleganger of anything remotely desireable and collectable caused the real thing to become cheaper?  There's milliions of plastic AC Cobra 427 reps on the globe.   I   think you'll find it has the complete opposite effect.


Utter utter nonsense of the highest order.

 


  
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 10:25:33 pm by P50 »
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Jonathan Poll

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2011, 10:17:18 pm »
Permission to giggle madly. I am glad I did not bother going into building my own replicas as for the effort involved it is easier to buy one of these! Someone had to do it and now they have confirming my estimation of making the investment and backing out. What price a real Peel now I wonder? I look forward to seeing the car in the flesh.

So as of today one can go out and but a proper road legal Peel get in and drive in with petrol propulsion. I recall buying my real one for roughly the same price of one of these and actually though i was going mad.

What price a real Peel?  What price a perfect copy Picasso vs Picasso, Rothko vs Rothko, Mondrian vs Mondrian?     Well an exact in every detail toolroom copy Ferrari California is £350k vs £4m.   A Lynx D brand new tool room is 350k vs 4m.  You do the math....    



People buy the sports cars to show off, and make the most of them, that means race them.

Peels are virtually undriveable for proper use, just for fun, so an original is no way near what you expect, as my dad says, I think repros are bringing the price down, since you can get an exact copy for a fraction of the price!


Like fake TG's make the bone fide TG's come down in price?

Since when has a copy of anything caused the real thing to become cheaper?

Err OK 

I don't mean it in that way, but there are so many peel replicas now, more than originals. Tg wise, there are more originals than repros.

I'm just expressing my opinion.

What would you rather have? A real TG, or a repro one for a fraction of the price, but as original?

As long as it sounds like a TG and is metal, I would have the repro!
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

richard

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2011, 10:58:17 pm »
wash your mouth out with soap young man ! ;)
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2011, 11:24:32 pm »

What would you rather have? A real TG, or a repro one for a fraction of the price, but as original?

As long as it sounds like a TG and is metal, I would have the repro!

I agree with Jonathan. When the original becomes so highly valued that your budget and investment means you can't use it as originally intended, surely it's better to have the option of a repro at a lower price that you can drive, display and muck about with to your hearts content. In my view there is plently of room for both providing one can distinguish between a replica and an original. Let's face facts, most microcars were never manufactured with the expectation that they'd still be in regular use 50+ years later and numbers are dwindling.  What's left are increasingly rare survivors and for every person who'd love an original, there are probably quite a few whose budget might allow them to buy one but wouldn't because they are less concerned with investment potential and more with driving the thing. Other than fakes passed off as originals, I've never know a replica to devalue an original, they usually serve to increase the desirability of owing "the real thing". It certainly might help boost attendance at rallys
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daughter of bamby

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2011, 01:09:11 am »
the whole idea of building replicas with modern mechanics and at a sensible drive away price is to get cars on the roads again. peels and the like are so highly valued that they hardly ever are used in anger. they rarely come on the market and they are out of reach for most people. our p50 is totally useable, is fun to drive and is affordable. you can jump in, hit the start button and tootle around till your hearts content. whats more, it is within reach of the younger generation, which encourages younger folk to get into the micro scene, a scene that will break down and gather dust if new blood is not encouraged to join in. while its true that bambys of old were not the best engineered things in the world, the new generation bambycars ltd has a head engineer, with a degree in mechanical engineering , over 20 yrs experience in building road and race cars,who has mentored severeal apprentices , all of whom went on to great success, is a coded welder, fabricator and all round wizard . that person is me, emma, daughter of a painter and decorator who went out on a limb and produced his own microcars, and what gave him the inspiration ?  a peel p50 replica he built in his garage. so bob, yes they are better than the early offerings,   and dad, heres to the future, love ya.

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2011, 02:08:40 am »
That is perhaps more important than the value. If these new cars, they are replicas but not Peels, bring in new, younger folk then that is to be encouraged.

Replicas demand that the base car has a value above the cost of re manufacture or it is not worth making them. However to argue if the value would be greater or lesser once the replica is available and quote examples is actually not a valid argument. Either there is or is not a replica and if there is it has already had its effect on values so we do not know what the effect would have been if there were not a replica do we? Cobras might be worth a darn site more if there were not so many cribs about. We will never know. The best you can argue is the evidence suggests cars with replicas made represent a safe investment. Fine if that is the only or main reason for owning the cars but if you want to walk your own path, be different and have something unique then such machinery has been 'spoilt' by becoming copied. Yet I remain greatly supportive of the business enterprise responsible behind this. It is for owners to react to the market forces. It will alter my collection a bit but then so would a change in legislation or tax.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2011, 03:39:05 am »
That is perhaps more important than the value. If these new cars, they are replicas but not Peels, bring in new, younger folk then that is to be encouraged.

Replicas demand that the base car has a value above the cost of re manufacture or it is not worth making them. However to argue if the value would be greater or lesser once the replica is available and quote examples is actually not a valid argument. Either there is or is not a replica and if there is it has already had its effect on values so we do not know what the effect would have been if there were not a replica do we? Cobras might be worth a darn site more if there were not so many cribs about. We will never know. The best you can argue is the evidence suggests cars with replicas made represent a safe investment. Fine if that is the only or main reason for owning the cars but if you want to walk your own path, be different and have something unique then such machinery has been 'spoilt' by becoming copied. Yet I remain greatly supportive of the business enterprise responsible behind this. It is for owners to react to the market forces. It will alter my collection a bit but then so would a change in legislation or tax.
I disagree with the last statement, where something is both desired and rare, there will always be several people who want it and many who can't afford the asking price. That's one of the reasons auctions remain so popular. If you can afford the original whether it's a Picasso or a TG500, then that is what the vast majority will always try and get, how much money you have available is another issue entirely. Replicas are evidence of demand exceeding supply, but while modern technology might allow you to improve on it, you can't 're-manufacture' an original, that's why provenance is such a critical factor. Who would argue that an original van Gogh painting could ever be 'spoilt' by the thousands of copies on the market? Either it's a desirable piece of kit or it isn't. It is true that familiarity breeds contempt, but I doubt we'll ever be seeing enough of these replicas on the road for them to any more familiar than books, magazine articles, TV programs etc have made the originals already. The more people are aware of something desirable, the more people will want to get hold of it and it is the number of people chasing something that ultimately will determine it's value. And whenever money has not been a factor, I've never met anyone who'd settle for a replica and that is what determines value. As to unique or different machinery, I'd argue that the challenge for the RUM is to keep encouraging people to discover and appreciate new and unique microcars and that is where unique and unspoilt territory still lies.
Malcolm
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Bob Purton

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2011, 07:13:54 am »
the whole idea of building replicas with modern mechanics and at a sensible drive away price is to get cars on the roads again. peels and the like are so highly valued that they hardly ever are used in anger. they rarely come on the market and they are out of reach for most people. our p50 is totally useable, is fun to drive and is affordable. you can jump in, hit the start button and tootle around till your hearts content. whats more, it is within reach of the younger generation, which encourages younger folk to get into the micro scene, a scene that will break down and gather dust if new blood is not encouraged to join in. while its true that bambys of old were not the best engineered things in the world, the new generation bambycars ltd has a head engineer, with a degree in mechanical engineering , over 20 yrs experience in building road and race cars,who has mentored severeal apprentices , all of whom went on to great success, is a coded welder, fabricator and all round wizard . that person is me, emma, daughter of a painter and decorator who went out on a limb and produced his own microcars, and what gave him the inspiration ?  a peel p50 replica he built in his garage. so bob, yes they are better than the early offerings,   and dad, heres to the future, love ya.

Glad to hear it Emma! I always admired your Dad for having a go and despite the engineering naivety of the old Bamby I will always have a soft spot for them. Some will love what you are doing, others will resent it but thats business. Cheers!

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2011, 08:42:17 am »
I disagree with the last statement, where something is both desired and rare, there will always be several people who want it and many who can't afford the asking price. That's one of the reasons auctions remain so popular. If you can afford the original whether it's a Picasso or a TG500, then that is what the vast majority will always try and get, how much money you have available is another issue entirely. Replicas are evidence of demand exceeding supply, but while modern technology might allow you to improve on it, you can't 're-manufacture' an original, that's why provenance is such a critical factor. Who would argue that an original van Gogh painting could ever be 'spoilt' by the thousands of copies on the market? Either it's a desirable piece of kit or it isn't. It is true that familiarity breeds contempt, but I doubt we'll ever be seeing enough of these replicas on the road for them to any more familiar than books, magazine articles, TV programs etc have made the originals already. The more people are aware of something desirable, the more people will want to get hold of it and it is the number of people chasing something that ultimately will determine it's value. And whenever money has not been a factor, I've never met anyone who'd settle for a replica and that is what determines value. As to unique or different machinery, I'd argue that the challenge for the RUM is to keep encouraging people to discover and appreciate new and unique microcars and that is where unique and unspoilt territory still lies.

  An interesting discussion. You ignore the effect of the people who prefer exclusivity to the extent of not obeying herd instinct. There are a lot about, some with money, and it used to be the driver for Microcars in the beginning. I collect interesting cars I want with an eye to value not the other way round - shock horror. I do not give a flying fig if I could afford Van Gogh's flowers. It is not even a particularly good picture! Don't want it as it is 'spoilt'. Same as I do not want a real Cobra, I would prefer an Aston Martin DBR3 say. At least it won something worth winning! I would prefer to look for fresh stuff and have the satisfaction of my judgement being correct on the risk rather than being in a scramble for what the mass deem is valuable, borrrring. I still think if you ask owners of the talisman vehicles why they want them the answer will involve an element of not knowing and peer pressure of some sort. That's fine if they are happy but there are more interesting challanges out there. I suggest Saachi Brothers for your arty comparison. It has always been easy to follow and more difficult, or in this case, risky to lead.
  Also you cannot disagree with the cause and effect logic as it is a fact but I notice you agree with the suggestion of the result. However there are buyers who will step back just as others come forward. That will effect value. You cannot quantify it and it does not matter, or if it does then it is probably something not to be owning anymore.
  I will confess to enjoying the thrill of the chase and have ended up with cars I am not sure I really want, like the talisman that is the Tiger, but that is part of my make up. I might yet sell it off as they are very much a flawed beast, like so many over desired items, but while I feel like having a collection of Messerschmitt cars I have to keep it really. I cannot resist a good deal. I have just done it again despite that I should be selling stuff! Again the popular has been traded for the unfashionable. It amuses me when taste often catches up with my choices over time and I enjoy the cash returns on offer to move on to something else. No I do not want the bowl of flowers thanks.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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NickPoll

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Re: road legal p50 from bambycars
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2011, 09:48:46 am »
Will a new Bamby Peel P50 be at the National in September ? I hope so. I wish you every success. I hope this will bring down the value of the originals, then it might stop someone keeping on about how much he thinks his own car is worth. Most of us have vehicles with some value, some more than others, but we don't keep on about it and there's more to this hobby than talking the values up all the time.
Messerschmitt Tiger 500, KR201 roadster, 1955 KR200, 1958 KR200, 1959 KR200, 1964 KR200, Nobel 200, Morgan Super Sports, Goggo Coupe, Isetta 300, Velorex 350, Bond mk D, Lomax.