Author Topic: Essex has Invalid Carraige  (Read 8458 times)

Big Al

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Essex has Invalid Carraige
« on: October 03, 2011, 10:06:51 am »
The trip into Essex was achieved to deliver the Motability Type 70 Invalid Carriage. With Clyde riding passenger we sat in various traffic jams to the extent I burned more fuel getting to Harlow and back without a trailer than towing to Bury and back! A positive disincentive for travel from or to Essex from the home counties. So there is every prospect that the car will appear at the Houses of Parliament on the 14th October where the Queen will be presiding over the handover of Motability cars to disabled owners. Thereafter it will split time as an exhibit in the foyer and being out on show at events round the country. Not bad for a car rescued from a scrap yard that most folk thought beyond the pale. Young Root was in his element crawling over their Harding establishing it was a 'lost' machine rather than a new find to the Register.
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marcus

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 05:31:12 pm »
In London, Strood, Bent and Lymington, Pants I have now seen dark blue pick-up style tricycles. One had a saddle, but the others were being used by disabled people who can enter the rear of the pick-up body in their wheel chair and drive off. Bike forks and I think a fossil fuel engine. I wonder if we will see a few of them at the edge of sports stadia again, like the old Invacars etc.

A lot of disabled people felt that ICs marginalised them on roads and in society and were only too glad to see the end of them, but others lament loosing the advantages of a small, manoeuverable and very easily parked car, and these new trikes suggest there is still a market for the idea of an IC, but I think they might need to design an enclosed version to cope with the English climate....




...the poor things could get sunstroke sat in the open in this hottest ever October!
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Big Al

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 08:21:57 am »
Do you think the advertisers would let them obscure the hoardings now. Football is tribal big business not a sport. It would take a bit of leaning to regain that perk I think.

The Toilet Blues are an interesting bit of social history. This is why the more switched on museums want them. It marks the rehabilitation of the disabled into the mainstream of society.  The cars themselves were universally ridiculed and stigmatized due to there poor old fashioned appearance and fear of the disabled. However they served to somewhat unite the disabled giving them the realisation that they could have a voice that could be heard. The Toilet Blues are bigger than just a car therefore. As they become collected and owned I expect them to become a rather off beat scene not like Microcars but something subtly different. This might well extend into later machinery as there are many cleverly adapted vehicles about. If you like engineering it is a goldfield of cheap interesting nuggets. If you are looking for investment poser cars then look elsewhere for the moment.

To my mind there is a clear requirement for a small, economic flexible vehicle to take up the commuter/citycar/lightcar requirement. However the set up costs of manufacturing and marketing such a vehicle mean it is unlikely to be made in Britain and to expensive to position at a good price to undercut the mass market superminis. This despite its feasibility to actually supply a genuine low carbon vehicle using the best of technology and ignoring trendiness. Of course the Government could use its green budget, research budget and manufacturing budgets to create a pot of money to get over that, ticking all the boxes politically. Apparently it is more important to buy worthless Greek bonds and fractionalise finance into fiefdoms than look at the bigger picture. So it is not going to happen.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 09:57:43 am by Bob Purton »
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marcus

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 08:35:31 am »
I think the other problem with the Blues was that the makers never figured out that a single front wheel is bad for safety and handling. Certainly it is simpler to make, but the pay-off is bad. I remember a TV programme (news, or Nationwide?) where they were discussing the growing anger of IC users about their poor handling and safety. The show arranged a slalom course for an IC and you saw an IC "tippen" over.

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Rob Dobie

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 09:51:10 pm »
...the poor things could get sunstroke sat in the open in this hottest ever October!

Sorry Marcus but us less-abled are not "things" even if some of us are poor. I have loved sitting in the sun for hours on end and I haven't got sunstroke yet.
Ain't got nuffink now except memories.

marcus

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 10:05:25 pm »
Oops sorry Rob, I honestly did not mean "things" in a derogatory way, but as in "oh your poor wee thing, would ye like a cuppa tea" sort-of-way!

And the quip about adding a roof was because normally we need them to shelter us from constant rain, rather than shade us from the blistering sun we have been enjoying recently! Actually, when I say "enjoying" I find it very exhausting trying to work in this heat, 68º - 72º F all year round would be my ideal, I hate heat and cold!

Certainly no offence was intended to disabled people, in fact Carla my girlfriend is disabled and I know only too well how much tougher life is for disabled people.
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Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2011, 01:01:20 am »
"Which" magazine didn't like them and according to this feature neither did disabled people - far from rehabilitating, they led to social isolation and even marriage break-ups!

http://www.macearchive.org/archive.html?Title=29169
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Big Al

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 09:07:02 am »
"Which" magazine didn't like them and according to this feature neither did disabled people - far from rehabilitating, they led to social isolation and even marriage break-ups!

http://www.macearchive.org/archive.html?Title=29169

Err. The option was no transport at all. Give kids a sweet a day and they will complain when their teeth fall out. It is easy to blame personal issues onto something or someone else.

Indeed look deeper and you find that from the comfort of hindsight the situation was as the real evidence shows. Remember that there was a pretty vociferous campaign to get rid of the Toilet Blues as they were old fashioned by 1970 and the world had moved on as had those expected to drive them - my point. The filming of rolling a Carriage is as appropriate as the Top Gear Reliant sketch. It tells you that you can roll the car if your a twit, wow! Given a film crew I can make a film that would prove anything you like is dangerous by using it incorrectly. The fact is a correctly prepared Type 70 driven well, will, in my opinion be able to take on a Bond Bug. It is one of the things I would like to do and I think it can win as the engineering is better over much of the hard bits. Much of what your looking at is propaganda and taken out of the context of the history of what was made available under state funding for a minority group and how it went from 'Oh dear. How sad, never mind' to having a pretty unrestricted access to most cars on the market. So successful was the campaign the Government got away with scrapping the lot and wasting a fortune of our money in the process!

These Toilet Blues are not cars, they are still appliances. The last in fact. Stuart will not thank me but this is why they are not microcars. They share some principles and parts. In the same way wheelchairs are not pedal tricycles. Interestingly the disabled now race wheelchairs..........
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P50

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2011, 01:47:40 pm »
They are a thoroughly hateful car of the highest order.

BUT - if you were disabled, lonely and isolated they were a godsend.

Imagine being holed up almost imprisoned then all of a sudden you could have a day out to the coast.  Or get some utilities from the village.  Fantastic freedom.

A KR would have been a million times better but then we have wheelchair logistics, access, door closure etc etc ..

Do I mourn their total destruction?  no.  As long as a few survive for the punters then good riddance to the hideous things!


To add I don't think any Reliant is a microcar.  A micro should be motorcyle drivechain derived.   Quirky but not a micro. 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 01:51:57 pm by P50 »
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Bob Purton

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2011, 01:53:10 pm »
As much as I dislike the blighters I have to agree with all Al says on this one. I would guess that the majority of users were only too glad to be mobile. Remember that many families in the fifties and sixties could not afford cars of any kind so someone with a IC had the advantage. I also agree that they are not microcars, I have been saying it for years.

marcus

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2011, 04:40:48 pm »
Unlike adapted normal cars they did have a few bonuses, like some parking options, and of course getting in front of the crowd at sporting events, sitting comfortably in your own space, out of the cold, wet and wind (or blistering October sun) and with your own refreshments.
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Daniel Rodd

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2011, 09:53:53 pm »
microcars are a figment of the imagination.so much is and isnt a "microcar" a term not really used when the 50s and 60s cars were in their heyday,they were just "cars" and better than walkling or getting wet on a bike.

the microcar term today seems to be grabbed as a means of adding value to something that is only loosely connected with the ethos of a lightweight small car.

richard

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 10:19:20 pm »
no daniel "they " were most definetly looked on as cars . in fact the opposite could be said , we now count most of them as cars with less than four wheels .

originally the mainstream motoring press ignored 3 wheelers almost entirely . they did not attend the motor show but the motorcycle show , they are taxed as tricycles - same as motorcycle and sidecar .very very few articles are to be found in motor etc. any articles would be found in the blue 'un or the green'@un. they were never targetted at motorists wanting economy but at motorcyclists wanting to upgrade from the sidecar .

possibly this is one of the reasons that reliants have never so far been within the fold . reliants were aimed more at motorists wanting economy whereas most others are motorcycle based. reliant owners nowadays are about as far from the motorcycling roots as you get i would think . 

as things have diversified i suppose a wider description of  microcar has found a place , its not one i actually like but it certainly predates by many years the trendy image and rise in price  of SOME but not all cars 
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Big Al

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2011, 08:47:37 am »
Microcars certainly exist but I take your statement and would refine it to suggest that its scope has been stretched by folk to include additional machinery that used not to be included in the arena as you suggest. This has resulted in an effort to increase values but also to belong or to take part in a scene where the choice original cars are out of the pocket of those attempting to join in. Of course the edges are blurred, just as are Cyclecars. The Cyclecar seems to have a end date as modern cyclecars are not called such but appear as Microcars, Velorex, French Bel Car thing for instance. So there is a date issue to add to the debate.

Reliants were not ever included as a Microcar, but then neither were Fiat 500 originally, which clearly tick all the boxes. There seems to be something about sales success which disbarred certain cars yet the clear minimalist successes like the Goggomobil have always been Microcars and might beat the total of all Reliants made at 278,000 odd units. Those 'non-microcars' found themselves grouped as Lightcars. The Lightcars, NSU, Trabbi, BMW 700 etc. are the ones that ended up being marginalised and ignored over time and that is why those that have no great club following knock at the Microcar scene's door being cheap enough for less affluent MIcrocar enthusiasts to buy and use, as they keep up with traffic better. Sadly, for me, that does not make them MIcrocars but that's not to say I do not want them turning up.

I do not understand why Reliant owners seem to have a chip on the shoulder about Microcars. Reliants have had a club for years. I can remember a time when many bikers had a Roly for the winter. Roly's were better in use than most of the Microcars and that was why they saw them off and ended up as the niche Trike market. I can only assume there is some sort of issue over the fact that Microcars have become collectable and in some cases valuable whereas most Rolys have not really been recognised as a desirable item. That is not helped by the still common activity of breaking up every other car that appears for parts and historically not reacting when caches of cars came up needing rescue like the 10 Groomfondle cars. If a group do not invest in their marque it can be no surprise if there is not a dynamic following resultant, though the one does not always follow the other of course. I was very disappointed at the turnout of Reliants at the National Microcar Rally. I was hoping to learn something and identify what my Rolys are and need but I cannot say I was motivated. I now know of a load of spares, not sure I want to buy them up if Reliant owners remain as negative as they were when I cleared Groomfondle. The damn cars were free and no one wanted them! How can you sell good spares to peeps like that. Its as daft as the Bond owner who towed a trailer from Brum all the way up to Rotherham to refuse a free Bond MInicar and moan about his costs of trip! The answer is of course, export it to folk who do want to spend money - like Holland, Germany and America. That will lead to the values going up like Microcars and put them on a par. The only trouble is like many micronauts you risk no longer being able to afford the car to really join in. There is no easy answer save that it is fun to be in when the cars are not interesting, ride the rise where people are having fun with the cars and leave when they become to valuable to be used and collectors dominate. Surely Rolys are on the rise now. Is it time to get on board as the pendulum swings away from Microcars as active machinery?
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Daniel Rodd

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Re: Essex has Invalid Carraige
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2011, 11:44:19 am »
i dont want to stir up a hornets nest,just engage in some interesting discussion lol! originally reliants were regarded as the upmarket 3 wheeler,for those who wanted more power or space,and indeed who could afford more.
Believe it or not a large number of them are still owned by people who only have bike licences.Reliants are starting to go up in value and desireabilty,remember when bonds were worth nothing compares with the mainstream bubbles?now they have gone up to reasonable levels,this only leaves reliants at the bottom end of the market,with the added bonus that for three wheeled motoring they are the only thing that can be realistically used as everyday transport for most situations(ive done 600 miles in the last 2 days)

fortunately the online community of reliant owners is far more active in preservation and restoration than the Reliant Owners Club to which alan refers to ever were,so i know that if such an offer came up again it would be accepted and sorted!I for one will buy up any amount of spares that come up for sale,indeed i have cleared out 2 closed down dealers in the last year.