Can anyone help with YDRAL 125 drawings?

[Oceanix]

The ydral engine in my Mochet has more or less "rotten" to one piece.
As I have bought ydral cycle engines with entirely different housing,
does anyone know a source for technical drawings / manuals / etc.
of the ydral 125 used in the Mochet 125Y series? To me, the bearings
etc look different.

Years ago, I saw pictures on a web site but cannot find it again 

Many thanks in advance!

[mharrell]

Have you tried contacting the club?

http://www.club-ydral.net/

They've got some photos online but I didn't see any technical drawings obviously posted. 

[Bob Purton]

I have exploded drawings of the 175cc motors as used in Inters with a gyrostarter, dont know if they are the same. Does your motor have one or two exhaust pipes?
Does it have a gyrostarter?

[Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)]

There's a few images here on the club site

http://www.club-ydral.net/technique.htm

and here

http://www.fregate.info/article-gros-plan-moteur-ydral-39993997.html

[Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)]

That first page links to a "dossier" on the AJ55 125cc engine. Don't know if thats the one you want?

http://www.club-ydral.net/AJ55.htm

[Oceanix]

Wow, many thanks for the quick responses 

Have you tried contacting the club?

http://www.club-ydral.net/

They've got some photos online but I didn't see any technical drawings obviously posted. 

Well, yes. I contacted the club and even met one of the guys. They told me my engine is
an AJ55 and as I complained about spare parts supply, they put me in contact with an
Ydral shop who sold me two used - but complete - engines to rebuild mine.
Just these look similar but are different in almost any detail... Then a colleague of
Hermann Brünning told me, it could also be an A54 of Ydral in the mochet...
Except nobody knows the A54 except one listing in an old spec card of Mochet.

I have exploded drawings of the 175cc motors as used in Inters with a gyrostarter,
dont know if they are the same. Does your motor have one or two exhaust pipes?
Does it have a gyrostarter?

Are these the same as linked here? If not, I would appreciate a copy as I need
to figure out how this thing can be re-animated. Some other parts might be the
same or give a hint to a different solution... I have one exhaust pipe and a
separate starter which looks like the 12hp 2CV starters from the late fifties. Not
sure if original, or added later - Brünning mentioned these were optional with
Mochet at that time.

That first page links to a "dossier" on the AJ55 125cc engine. Don't know if thats the one you want?

http://www.club-ydral.net/AJ55.htm

Wow, an entire manual     
Why didn't I find that  It is much more explanatory for the dis- and reassembly!!!
But also different to my engine in details like the clutch housing, ...

There's a few images here on the club site

http://www.club-ydral.net/technique.htm

and here


http://www.fregate.info/article-gros-plan-moteur-ydral-39993997.html

Thank you for this additional link with schemes as well !



In case I never told you - Ydral engines are a nightmare to rebuild....!
For all Ilo, Heinkel, whatever engines all parts are available, for Ydral...
Okay, my lack of French language skills could be the main issue here...

Regretfully, the only way to get the car licensed is with the original
engine or the 175 Ydral, as it was optional. With another engine it
would be driving for some time by now... 

[Bob Purton]

"In case I never told you - Ydral engines are a nightmare to rebuild....!
For all Ilo, Heinkel, whatever engines all parts are available, for Ydral...
Okay, my lack of French language skills could be the main issue here...

Regretfully, the only way to get the car licensed is with the original
engine or the 175 Ydral, as it was optional. With another engine it
would be driving for some time by now...  "

I can appreciate your frustration if you have a particularly rare model engine but as far as rebuilding is concerned I beg to differ.  I've rebuilt three Ydrals no problem, L49 and AJ55's and they are one of the easiest engines to work on that I have ever experienced. True some parts may be hard to find but I have always found Pierre Astier to be very helpfull  [if you befriend him and dont complain!]  and what you cant find you just have to fabricate or improvise, for instance you can use a Wisco piston in AJ55 motors. All the seals and bearings I've ever come across have been bog standard. They were not produced in the same quantity as some other engines were so parts will not be availible on demand, the other factor to consider is that many of the French resent there cars being bought by us foriegners and especially if they are leaving the continent thus will not cooperate. I dare say that when they use up there own supplies of parts they will have to start remanifacturing some and then things may get a little easier. All part of the fun and challange of owning UNUSAUAL microcars.
   

 

[jean-do]

 wowowowow !!!!  don't spit on our ydral engines friends !!!
yes i like it, and as bob said ,this is one of the famous french popular engines, easy to built, easy to drive, easy to repear ..... but !! but !! remember that in !france , after the WW2 , was the desert ... all had to be  rebuilt, and Ydral enterprise started in 1947 with 128 cc 2 strokes engines . this engine , had been sold to 85 motorcycles, scooters, tricycles and microcars enterprises to install in their productions . ( just a little number ...)
in 1958 ; appeared in france ,obligatory  licence for driving 125 cc  vehicules ,obligatory  insurances ( same cost for a scooter than for a renault 4cv  ! ) taxes , and "famous" algerian war , that moved young drivers to the other continent , leaving scooters motorcycles to barns ....
it had been a crisis period for two-wheels industry and in 1961 was the end of all famous factory  , motorcycles scooters, microcars ....
at the same time too ; the famous 2 cv was " free" to buy ( in 1952 you'll had to wait 3 years to have your car !!!!)  so a car most interesting than a mochet ... 125 versus 425 cc ; 2 seats vs 4 seats .......
in 1960 appear the moped at the first lines ( the french mobylette still  born in 1950 ) moped that were in the shadow of Scooters  ; because they don't use any driving licence  : and the manurhin scooter with its 75 cc clutch engine easy to drive and clean as a scooter was ...
so for this reason, ydral engine is well known, but can't compete with sachs,  jlo or other big factories particulary german factories .
know that as ydral was " under" factory names, it doesn't have  the prestige of the factories ... you know mochet ... bernardet scooters ; agf motocycles, paul vallée tricycles ... but not  ydral ... and i don't talk about terrot or motobecane or vespa 400  ( as they don't used ydral engines )
today in our Club Ydral France, we try to want owners to restore their ydral engines  , that often stay in barn  because it's not a Famous motorcycle factory ...
we do our best with our small arms ( and money ! )
guys get registred in our club just one year, time to get parts  to restore, and don't get as fan as we are ...
for this reason, know that without more members, and more subscriptions we can't invest in real new rebuilt parts as we woulmd like to have  for you ..... know that ydral engine are ( more often ) 4 bi-tube exhaust 125 -175 cc , single tube 125 / 175 cc and crankshaft for 2cv exterior style starter (14 to 16 mm dimaeter ) and special crankshaft for gyrostater system ......quite impossible to satisfy ....
we can give you : new parer gasket kit  , new clutch corks, new kick stater springs . ... the rest is tandard parts ( seals, bearings)  rings can be find at other professionnnal dealers ( henoux, macadam ..)
 we sure do our best  be sure ......
but there is big problems to solve as cylinders .. pistons ...rods .... that are  the heart of an engine ...these problems have to be clued with rebotring factories , that can rebuilt pistons ,rings to the good size  . we would relly like to sell to members complete cylinder kit in the 4 standars types at a good price .... but we can't !!
i'll do my best to help friends, my wife jacotte, the president  do  her best to give gold letters to club ydral france .... just help us!
and to give positive end , isn't it exciting to restore rare things who can be proud to restore a 56 vespa scooter or messerchmitt ....
don't hesitate to send me email for mechanical help, and become member of our clubYDRAL france

[Big Al]

Fantastic!

State intervention alters things and not always for the best or in a way expected. One forgets how France suffered after the war, but in a different and perhaps nastier way to Britain having been occupied. Interest info in that. I must look to see if I have any Ydral paperwork in my stash.

[jeanjeanmoto]

   hello good  morning
   I HAVE PART MOTEUR YDRAL   FROM YDRAL ORIGINAL
 ENGINE PART   NEW
jeanjeanmoto@free.fr

[jean-do]

hi oceanix ( what's your name ??)
what's up with your engine and mochet ??
may be you should have been at the Bisbi nationa lrrlally  this weekend to meet french micricar fans ....
so tell me about it ?

[Oceanix]

Hi Jean-Do,

my missing language skills seem to be the main issue besides missing technical skills... So sorry if I complained above about Mochet rather than pointing me out as being the main problem.

Isn't French language mandatory to go to Bisbi? Anyway - Will start at a local rally with my 452cc Wiking cargo van this weekend. Hope that engine runs good after it took a year to rebuild it... It is the same engine as in Maico and others thus it was relatively easy to find parts and partial engines over time.

To the mochet and the ydral engine. I have given up on the Ydral A54 engine and bought a AJ55 engine through ebay which is worse than the A54 engine originally in it. The AJ55 is taken apart and a I send the pistons to a company in South of Germany for making new pistons for the new width. Regretfully,

the rest is tandard parts ( seals, bearings)  rings can be find at other professionnnal dealers ( henoux, macadam ..)

none of the rest seem standart to me nor to any of the local dealers. I googled Henoux and Macadam, however, language... I am working on it and we will see. If entirely lost or giving up, I will post it here  

The main problem with the Mochet itself seems to find the original parts like turning lights, hub caps, rear lights etc. My idea to install brake bands from a small farm tractor improved brake performance, however, the official car inspectors tell me, I need an original... Generally, it seems difficult to get it officially registered, there is one Mochet registered (as seen in old press and youtube), however, unable to locate the owner for a copy of the papers, which would certainly ease my registration.

Thank you all so far,
Kai

[Big Al]

Root popped in yesterday morning. He was looking for Flipper info so I finally had a good enough excuse to look through a mass of half sorted paperwork to try and find what I had, knowing it was in the 'French' file. It took the two of us half an hour to find the file, of course the last one under some magazines that should not have been there. So Root has now got the Flipper 2 ( rather than Flipper II ) handbook which he is going to scan so as to have a copy. I suggested he send one to Barry as well since he wanted info. Probably a copy to Jean as well, thinking about it. So one little task ticked off the to do pile.

The bonus though is in the file I knew there to be a Ydral book with the stuff on those cars appropriate. I have now got that in front of me. It is a red book, being Blocs-Moteurs et Moyeux ; Ydral. It is for the 175cc 4 speed engine but seems really to offer only a specification and exploded diagram. It is shown with a Magneto and the later pages show various motor cycle axles, Moyeux.

As to the engine covered, it is hard to say a type ID. The cover and title page has twin exhaust, offset inlet, barrelled engine drawn and pictured on it. The diagram is consistent with those but show only one exhaust port, so I assume it is a simplified drawing. The book would seem to be 1953.

The same engine is illustrated in the Inter manual, looking very Gestetner there, but cunningly from the clutch side so as to not show the electrics, I believe a Westinghouse gyrostarter should be there not a magneto. Later the engine is shown in the car with a cooling cowl on it, a give away that the illustration prior is nicked and not a real Inter engine.

The other news is Root has no home phone/internet connection at the moment. He was thus also looking to find out if I knew of anyone going to the National for lift scrounging. I had to tell him I did not. The Beaulieu/Nettley effect having got Goodwood added to it as well there is all sorts of distractions in the South and South West competing with our niche interest's major event. The same thing happened over the Cardiff edition national weekend years ago and the organisers took it rather badly, I am afraid. Up till then the Welsh Microcar Club had been becoming quite strong. All rather unfortunate as it had been advised that they miss this weekend at Tormarton Clubnight by those directly effected and having to make the choice of what to attend. It should not have been a surprise but Wales is something of a desert for Microcar activity now and I wonder if this 'lack of support' was part of the reason.

Despite not planning on being involved with Beaulieu myself I find I have been invited to attend a reception organised by and for traders, experts and clients going to these events at a big house near Stockbridge by chums who run a Belgium restoration outfit.  Very clever business model as they employ just a few brilliant tradesman and contract marque expertise in as differing projects come up. The work is done near Antwerp and you get a free house while on contract as part of the deal. My contact is their 'Riley' man, though he does much more than that. A great honour and I just wonder if they are getting microcar enquiries stimulating the invite, but my co ex Beaulieu stand holders are going too so probably not. A chance to see a load of people not met for ages and hob nob with some well known VMCC, racing and classic car folks for Fri evening. Then another bash on Sat evening before travelling to a further do on Sunday. The classic car world still falls under the spell of our biggest autojumble even if you are not going to the main event, it seems. So I am a no show, sadly.

[Barry]

Thanks for thinking of me on the Flipper 2 info Al.  It would be good to have a copy.
Remember that I have some good scanning equipment up to A3 here if anyone needs something copied.

Also don't forget that copy of your Crayford V5c so that I can get my Lawil registered in the UK.
A photo of the chassis plate (hopefully sporting the LAWIL logo) would be a great help too.

Barry