Mini-Comtesse on eBay

[Big Al]

Stevens prob is way passed a spark I am afraid. Getting the engine running is not the problem really. Its getting it driving correctly. Thus if a decompressor is fitted on yours which control is that in the cab? Reading about these engine the decompressor is a source of issues but it does seem the high compression/more powerful version need them with electric start to overcome the initial resistance of the compression. So starting is with decompressor out, spin up the starter.
Which button is your starter? Then drop the decompresser in. Is there a choke? If so which knob should it be. With Stuarts I was starting it from the front with my hand over the carb and pulling the throttle so I have no idea what he was up to in the cab operating the starter.

Now Stuarts car did not have reverse. Steven can find no reverse on his, yet. What makes the reverse work?

So you have the man powered assembly. Great. Then there is a chance of understanding how that works. One up for your example over the others. Steven probably needs to talk to you direct about that.

The Norsjo uses nigh on the same engine. It can be held down into gear in this machine. Does not mean Comtesse have this. Stevens engine is a Saxonette 50 AMAL X version Z. No clue as to a reverse there. Is that actually the correct engine type? Could explain a lot.

[Barry]

I started a more detailed reply but realised that the engine in my Super Comtesse is a Motobycane.  I have all the details of this engine which includes a second 'primary compression' piston and  reed valve.

The Flipper has a Sachs Saxonette two speed engine which may be more like the Mini Comtesse.

The decompressor is operated by a black lever under the dash.

The starter button / switch is a bit of a to know what does what and where the arm is supposed to be to start - the red button is the starter.  I have a picture attached from my car stored at the Bubble car museum but my car at home is bodged-up with various switches.

There is a lever on the left, on the floor by the drivers knee.  this operates a transfer box for reverse.

On the Flipper, I have a cable coming up from the engine which I assumed to be for changing-up to second gear - there is nothing on the end of it in the cable (except my mole grips).  I thought the 1st and 2nd gear clutches had been overridden in some way.  Now it makes sense that this cable actually holds the 1st gear.  Next time at Jeans I was going to investigate her flipper but your suggestion spounds good.

We really need to find a Mini Comtesse.

The Super Comtesse is rear wheel drive with the engine behind the seat (under) so not much the same as Mini Comtesse.

[richard]

Best to find one ? Blimey ! I am glad I have never found one   should I ever , be sure you may have it  

[Big Al]

I started a more detailed reply but realised that the engine in my Super Comtesse is a Motobycane.  I have all the details of this engine which includes a second 'primary compression' piston and  reed valve.

The Flipper has a Sachs Saxonette two speed engine which may be more like the Mini Comtesse.

The decompressor is operated by a black lever under the dash.

The starter button / switch is a bit of a to know what does what and where the arm is supposed to be to start - the red button is the starter.  I have a picture attached from my car stored at the Bubble car museum but my car at home is bodged-up with various switches.

There is a lever on the left, on the floor by the drivers knee.  this operates a transfer box for reverse.

On the Flipper, I have a cable coming up from the engine which I assumed to be for changing-up to second gear - there is nothing on the end of it in the cable (except my mole grips).  I thought the 1st and 2nd gear clutches had been overridden in some way.  Now it makes sense that this cable actually holds the 1st gear.  Next time at Jeans I was going to investigate her flipper but your suggestion spounds good.

We really need to find a Mini Comtesse.

The Super Comtesse is rear wheel drive with the engine behind the seat (under) so not much the same as Mini Comtesse.

Oh the disappointment. All that sexy talk of red valves and secondary compression. oowahh! I was really getting quite excited. Yes I think the Super is more like the Coupe I had. The rear axle with transfer box/diff and a pedal set attached, in the Coupe's case for the passenger. Your right the Flipper will have more in common with the Mini Comtesse.

Hmm. a third small car with a two speed auto Sachs engine that seems to be having a gear/drive selection issue. Is this a lack of knowledge passed on or an engine only just able to cope with the task it is being asked to do. The plot thickens.

[Barry]

I have full details of the Sachs two speed engine (in French).
The flipper is pretty quick of the mark but I could never quite work out if it had changed up to second gear when whizzing around the garden.  lots of screaming and definitely second gear sometimes.  Hence the mole grips on the cable to change-up.  Never even imagined that this could be to'stay down in first'.

[Barry]

Some shots from the one on ebay showing the controls.
Good old recovery Dan seems to bring one back regularly.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281114665884?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Better resolution on the Ebay photos showing the switch with red button.  pull starter etc.

[Big Al]

Found a Mini Comtesse/Acoma handbook on the net. This includes a menu for the controls not including the rope pulls. It covers both engines, so the Motobecane as well, Barry. Not sure the car pictured is like yours though. I have attempted to send a copy to Stuart in the hope he can post the relevant bits up. Hopefully the whole thing can be made available. If the controls of the car can match the paperwork then some semblance of order is restored from modified controls and miss-understanding.

I only skimmed the French text but for Sachs, no reverse. It has a decompressor. It gives speeds for the gears and the gearing ratio progression. The correct drive chain routing. There is operational advice on driving. It mentions pedals, to comply with the rules of the time, requiring power 'musculature' as an option. So with this understood those machines, and to an extent Flippers and others on Sachs 50 AMAL X units, can be better understood. Hopefully also the more advanced Motobecanes. If the Manual can be bought down, and the Norwegian understood, it really only remains to find a copy of the appropriate parts book for ease of parts ID and Bob's your Aunt Lucy. Maybe once these docs are produced in a well presented format, rather beyond my skill level, I fear, they can find a home somewhere on a page attached to the RUMcar site as a resource.

[steven mandell]

Many thanks to Big brained Al and Barry for their extraordinary efforts to help get my Mini comtesse controls figured out and clutch and tranny parts sourced.
Mine looks identical to the last picture posted by Barry, except for the fact that there is an additional rubber pull handle symmetrically displaced from centerline to the left of the one shown on the right side of the dash.
They both look like rope start handles, but neither could ever have been designed to function in such capacity as the engine appears to be pure electric start that is engaged by pushing in a push button that looks to be original and is found on the part of the dash to the left of the steering wheel as you see from sitting in the vehicle.
Interesting is the fact that the ignition is energized by pulling out a separate settable knob to the far right of the dash whose primary function is to allow fuel to flow from the tank to the carburetor.  When this knob is pulled a red light just a little to the right of it goes on and stays on until you push it back in again.
After counting the gear teeth on the crankshaft and transmission shaft for each of its 2 speeds, it appears that the right most pull handle is designed to engage second gear if the engine is not spinning, as you would want to for a jump start.  It could also function as a hold down to ensure (premature?) engagement of second gear if the engine is running. 
At least the jump start provision appears to make sense as one usually is wise to avoid jump starting in first gear, as it tends to over wind the transmission.  The ability to maintain a pulling force on the pull handle and thus either shift up to second gear, or discourage downshifting into first doesn't sound particularly usefull to me, so may just be an unintended ability that the jump start feature creates in the system.
The left pull handle goes into the carburetor so must be a weird handled choke  intended only for momentary operation.  It does not appear to be a compression release to me due to its fitting to the carburetor.
Also interesting is the fact that the red button shown in Barry's picture is on my headlight switch, and has nothing to do with starting the car.  The Super comtesse looks to have almost nothing in common.
Would love to see the pedal linkage on one of these cars,as by reading of Stuart's sojourn it seems that this feature could prove usefull in crossing over bridges.
Also need a source for a clutch and related hardware.
Thanks, Steve

[Barry]

There is also another handle on the one which was on ebay Steve.  Seems like one hell of a handle for a choke?

I will try to scan details of the Sachs engine from my French book.

I am going by memory for the red button because the car is miles away, I can't check.  Perhaps my memory is fading.

Where was I?  Oh yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tWtHu6SCNw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSDYTZ_Dnnw



I can remember that the engine wouldn't start with the switch and the light in a certain position but once it was running it would stay running in that same position.  Also It was almost impossible to stop! Red button could be a kill switch. I will have to get the Super Comtesse back and have a look.
perhaps it is the grey push button that does the starting.
The idea of a cable going into the engine casing that keeps it in first gear makes sense.

Barry

[Stuart Cyphus]

For the sixth time of trying....

From: stuart cyphus <invacar@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fw: Comtesse mysterises
To: "steven mandell" <stevenmandell@verizon.net>
Date: Sunday, 19 May, 2013, 12:47

Hello Steve

 Much apologies for taking a while to respond but total chaos here what with two mates moving house, cars to move, relatives dieing, houses to clear, so please forgive there not being much general chat in this message. Things should get beck to normal around the end of the month (I hope!)  Anyway, to answer;

What is the inteneded purpose for middle pedal on left, just to the right of the brake pedal that actuates a rod that goes straight backwards parallel to the floor, but presently connects to nothiing?

 

This pedal is the “Manual propulsion lever”. The very earliest French Sans Permis regulations in the 1940s were mainly tailored towards motor-assisted bicycles like the Velosolex, which was essentially a pedal bicycle with an occasional engine fitted. As time went on, people realised there was nothing in the regulations to say a car could not be built to Sans Permis regulations, provided (amongst other details) that it had some sort of manual-operated system of making it move around when the engine was not running. (To serve the same purpose as the pedals being the main form of propulsion on the aforementioned motor-assisted bicycles The fact that on the Mini-Comtesse it’s a foot-operated pedal is neither here nor there. It’s still “Manual”.   Every Comtesse I’ve seen has either had the system disconnected (like yours) or completely removed (mine). I don’t know how it should be connected to operate.  

 

Is one pull handle for starting the engine in forward rotation, and one for reverse?

They are both jammed.   How to fix?

 

 The two pull handles under the steering wheel is choke and manual gear-change handle. I can’t quite remember with my car, but I think I’m right in the choke is on the left & change-speed is on the right. I never had a proper choke on mine as the cable had been pulled out of the top of the carb, stripping threads etc. We wired up the choke slide so it couldn’t move, blanked off the hole in the bulkhead and whenever it was being started from cold, off with the bonnet and tickle the carb direct like a motorcycle.

 

  On my car the change-gear handle only shifts up from first gear to second gear. It did not shift down from second to first. The downshift was entirely automatic. Other owners reported that their cars shifted up completely automatically, but my car never did that I noticed. I always had to set off, and when the revs got to screaming pitch, reach down, pull out handle (about an inch if that of travel, floor the gas and slowly feed back in the handle. Two times out of three it would then have upshifted and the revs not quite so manic. If the revs instantly scream again, it hadn’t upshifted. Repeat above until it did.  Once it was in top gear (second gear), it would only drop back to bottom gear when the car was very nearly stopped when parking, or when I let the gas off momentarily on a hill at just the right point in space & time. (You have to get the feel through experience)

 

Engine spins when rolling car.

Is there a neutral, and if so, how do you select it?

 

There is no neutral selector. It’s a centrifugal clutch which should be completely not engaged below a certain RPM. If yours is turning the engine just from being rolled around, it sounds like someone or something has jammed the centrifuge in engaged position to me. I’d take further advice on this, I’m not completely confident to make mechanical diagnostics.

 

Same for kill and start switches. What are the other switches for, and how do I recognize them?

 

  My car had a home-made toggle switch acting as the battery on-off kill switch, mounted over the right-hand rear wheel arch. To start my car, it was (after having tickled carb as above) lean into car, flick home-made kill switch at battery box to open power curcuit. Then move up to left hand door, reach in and push the plunger located at extreme top right corner of main dash. This plunger is the main starter. Engine will now turn and fire. To stop engine, flick battery kill switch. I don’t know what factory standard kill switch is, as mine was not factory standard in that respect.

 

 Moving around your dash from left side to right side of the steering wheel;

 

Left side of dash;

Extreme top right plunger should be engine starter.

Plunger to left of engine starter, I don’t know. My car didn’t have this one.

Left-hand Knob, this is the indecators, left for turning left, right for turning right etc etc.

Thing to right of above which looks a bit like a wristwatch laid out; this is the lights (dip, main beam etc) and horn.

 

Right side of dash;

Petrol on/off knob. On my car, it was pull on, push off. Movement was about half an inch.

Tell-tale light to side of petrol knob. This never worked on my car. I guess ignition light?

 

 That silver-grey vertical thing with knob at bottom just poking into top left corner of your dash picture. My car never had this.

 

 

What is the cure for seat cover bunching?

 

 I think they all do this through age. It’s more or less the same system as a Peel P50 and most properly original untouched P50’s do the same.  My car never had its original seat, being fitted with a 1989 Reliant Rialto seat.

 Hope this helps for the moment....

 Stuart

[Big Al]

Hurrah, I made it work! So this is the official answer, from the book. New improved image now in place, sorry Rusty Chrome, but thanks

Running across from left to right we have.

E - Decompressor
B - Starter Motor switch
F - Horn push
C - Lights - 3 position switch Top - Turn in a clockwise direction
                                            Mid -  a - Parking Lights
                                            Bot -  b - Dip
D - Indicators, 3 position
K - Wiper motor
G - Speedo
H - Ignition/Charging light
A - Contact, so I assume ignition switch
S - Choke, Ah you see, you were making assumptions because it was S!

There are no mole grips or bits of string involved, though its all good fun.

No mention here of the one or two pull cords. Clearly one is a gear control. Would the other put the muscle power into drive mode? Perhaps it is to hang yourself while waiting to get to the top of a big hill. Maybe more will be revealed on attempting to convert the rest of the images into a form that publishes.

Switch F/C, lights and horn -This switch seems common to other machines, so there is a vague clue as to how that works for you.

[Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)]

I've made the picture a bit darker just in case anyone couldn't read the original.

[Big Al]

Yep that is a bit better. I will attempt to to re collect the files later on now I have an idea what to do. They should present better. Then it might be for someone else to enhance and present then to a file somewhere. Anyway I have to go and hit a Citroen BX with a hammer, or something, to make it go after 5 years none use.

[richard]

seems as if the only button missing is the self destruct in 30 seconds button - surely the most , if not only , useful button of all on these strange devices 



there is no manual or whatever for the Bruetsch i feel sure i have not alienated any potential sources of help ? have i ? surely you will still be playing with your little knobs and switches .

[steven mandell]

Hurrah, I made it work! So this is the official answer from the book.

Running across from left to right we have.

E - Decompressor
B - Starter Motor
F - Horn
C - Lights - 3 position switch Top - Turn in a clockwise direction
                                            Mid - Parking Lights
                                            Bot - Dip
D - Indicators
K - Wiper motor
G - Speedo
H - Ignition/Charging light
A - Contact, so I assume ignition switch
S - Choke, Ah you see, you were making assumptions!

There are no mole grips or bits of string involved, though its all good fun.

No mention here of the one or two pull cords. Clearly one is a gear control. Would the other put the muscle power into drive mode? Perhaps it is to hang yourself while waiting to get to the top of a big hill. Maybe more will be revealed on attempting to convert the rest of the images into a form that publishes.

Switch F/C, lights and horn, seem common to other machines so there is a vague clue as to how that works.

Good Hurrah, but Wong car.
Mine has no decompressor, wiper motor (its hand motivated), or speedometer,  and Has only a rightmost mounted indicator light for the ignition.
My centrally mounted steering wheel only makes obvious the choking assumption that this is more likely a 4wheeled model without a pull handle actuated up gear change or choke.