Your dream Microcar

[richard]

as long as it still has a large boot like a Gordon I will 

[Bob Purton]

Dear Bob

Well here goes with my dream Microcar. It would be based around a three cylinder Triumph 675 cc water cooled engine laid horizontally and connected to an AC generator and battery system. The large Triumph motorcycle size wheels would be used on all four wheels and incorporated with Michelin in wheel electric motors connected to a computerised torque split transmission controller to give 4 wheel drive, and disc brakes all round and energy recovery system on overrun. The wheels would be positioned at each corner and connected to an electronic four wheel steering system, which was speed sensitive like on the Citroen CX.  The body would be as narrow as possible with three seats set one in front and two behind, with sliding doors on both sides. The body would have the front and rear wheels exposed with close fitting mud guards. The engine would be between the front wheels and the fuel tank and a small battery pack in the rear to give 50 50 weight distribution. The body chassis unit would be all aluminium like a Rolls Royce.

The suspension needs to be ride height adjustable, high for deep water at one end for off road work, and lower for fast motorways like the Citroen CX. The vehicle would be short, narrow, maneuverable, lots of torque, able to run in milk float mode, and energy efficient.

All the technology exists.

Is that unusual enough for you?

Chris Thomas

Yes but how many cup holders?

[marcus]

Interesting one there, Chris!

[Bob Purton]

It is a great concept but we are straying a bit here from the original task I set which was to build a microcar using all our favourite components from other classic microcars, the parts that we consider to be the best from each brand.

[Big Al]

as long as it still has a large boot like a Gordon I will 

Synch, have Root as a passenger with correct footwear on. Have not seen any shaped like a Gordon but he has ballet pumps like a Brutsch or too  . Oxfordshire, the county of culture.

[Big Al]

How about  Isetta brakes, Trojan suspension, Goggo engine, Frisky steering, Avolette body?

OK lets try it the other way round. Treinkel axle I have already been rude about.

Isetta brakes. Twin leading, which is good in a way but more bits so heavier. It is easy for a micro to have a big drum and surface area so I do not see a need for twin leading. Discs were pretty newly available and NSU were early on them. I could not date it but the option came after the bodyshell production of the Sport Prinz moved from Bertone to Germany I think. So about 1960. This was with 12 or 13 inch wheels. The design was a subassembly on an axle with outer wishbones. Pretty good but not flexible enough for a change in width and I do not like the trunionesque bottom kingpin link.
The Trojan brakes work well, but its all a bit one off. You do have the possibility of handbrake on the front, later done away with. I can see reasons not to use this system.

Goggo engine is very good in its class. It suffers from modification though. The 250cc is a nice reliable low compression unit. The 300cc is better, but not as good as it could have been, due to a lack of space for the right sized transfer ports. The 400cc has a poor piston design in a very square engine. It is a limited engine but still better than many. I always thought a 250cc Goggo at 14 BHP, in a three wheeled schmitt would be a very nice drive, although all the advantage of one of the few diffs in the area would be wasted.
I have limited experience of so many engines. Trabbi seems good. Lloyds, Maico etc etc. Go four wheeled ant the field narrows sharply with need for a diff. Zundapp made a separate one which is quite nice. The chaindrive diffs are not in the game for me. 

Frisky steering. I remember little of it. That suggested it always worked , which would also suggest it was quite good.

Avolette, a differing kind of car to what I was thinking. Here we hit a biggy. What do you want the car for? The Avolette is pretty, all mod cars should perform well and thus it would be fun. Not practical, but then practical for what. As a happy alternative to a G Whizz, yeah!

[Barry]

You have obviously thought about this a lot Al.

How about using something like this on a three wheeler?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261009417110?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Looks like this guy has had some fun........Interesting front suspension, or lack-of.  quite wide?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=312638598818124&set=a.303449656403685.71407.100002159599719&type=1&theater

[richard]

oh dear barry's gone off on one again 

[Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)]

I have to admit I don't have the knowledge or experience of driving a variety of microcars to be able to combine mechanical niceties from various cars to improve on the original. I liked the idea of a Nobel that was at the Bath microcar show last year with scooter mechanicals. I assume it had a bit more power than the original, but whether it braked or steered better than the original is another matter entirely. I felt slightly less enthused about the Kleinschnittger replica at last years national, although very nicely done, the Mini engine just seemed a little too out of kilter with the original.

[marcus]

A Metro or Mini -engined Berkeley loses some of its well-proportioned looks, but drives well. A good blend of reliable modern mechanicals in a fun classic, but engine size puts it somewhat outside RUM category.

[steven mandell]

A Zeta Sport coupe (with doors), and a mid mounted Excelsior triple engine, like the Frisky Sprint that stole the 1957  Earle's Court motor show, from which its production rights were formalized. 

Or just as well, that very same Frisky Sprint show car that was  knee high to a grass hopper, and looked all the world like a micro Bonneville streamliner.

The Frisky Bug was quite endearing in a different way.  Too bad John's Dad wasn't ever able to get to producing it.

A Peel Trident with water cooled flat 200 cc two stroke motor, double wishbones and go cart disks up front, two wheels about 16 inches apart at the rear, cockpit adjustable ride heights / dampening, 6" front wheels with stiffer springing and anti roll bar (if proven useful), twin one gallon fuel tanks mounted in its sills, and central seating that would convert to passenger plus driver accommodation upon sliding or swinging the steering wheel and attached pedal assembly off center the requisite amount to allow for maintenance of centralized weight balance.

[micro marshall]

my dream micro car would have to  be a BERKELEY 4 wheeler with a small block Cheviot engine.
or OPPERMAN STIRLING with a reliant 800 engine in it.
the cars i would most like to drive standard, would have to be the Heinkel TYE and the frisky sport.

[Bob Purton]

Oooo you little devil Jamie!!

Most people who posted on this one seemed to miss the point, I wasn't talking about engine transplants in existing microcars but a car built from all your favourite or best components from all the classic microcars. Most of them shine in just one area, one may have the best brakes, another engine, suspension and so on. Putting them all together to make a complete car. Not suggesting anyone did this, just an exercise.

[micro marshall]

yes bob i want the BERKELEY, because i would only have to upgrade the chassis a bit with modern parts ( in my opinion the BERKELEY  chassis is one of the best micro car ones). i would put some nice 12 inch disk brakes on it, and give it some wider wheels but other than that i would try and keep it as standard as passable.
 most the micro car parts wouldn't be able to deal with the power the motor, and i know of no micro car brakes that would stop the thing. the suspension would have to be BMW 700 or isetta because it is the softest. so that is why i have chosen this set up, because i think it is the best!

[Big Al]

It is interesting the drift to larger engines, or tuned units. It confirms my belief that most microcar people are not actually minimalist motoring enthusiasts but rather find the design and smallness appealing but begrudge giving up any performance. This will be why few cars gain use in standard form and the concept of minimalist cars is pretty much dead in most developed countries. It is not what people want. It is also reflected in the Microcar rallies where there is less use of smaller cars in favour of the larger and the entrance of re engined, uprated fakes and out right kit cars. Nothing stays the same I guess, but Microcars many ain't.

I, myself, offered a uprated bubblecar to offer performance, as I recognize this need to improve the performance into usability today. I feel it held to the the brief laid down. Much else seems to be not really a microcar, but more something that looks like a microcar, but is not. That this represents a dream microcar suggests folk are starting in the wrong place and is slightly worrying. You should be looking to import a K class car. The K class, is not microcar now, but used to be when it was 360cc. All the hard work has been done for you, including making the engine bigger. Some of the designs are bonkers. So dreams do exist.