Author Topic: Mess-a-schmitt  (Read 18998 times)

fuoriserie

  • Occasional
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • fuoriserieDesign
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2014, 02:33:13 PM »
Designers flirt with the notion but modern safety and gizmo requirements would suggest that the real '50's minimalist approach is most unlikely to be a success without the intervention of a political or financial incentive. A possible marketable modern micro currently would need to make best use of the newest of technology, this tends to be beyond stylists and designers, and is the preserve of the engineer. Just as ever it was with the best of the Classic Microcars. They tending to be from the pinnacle of the breed then, aero-engineers, using first principle thinking, not copying what went before.   
The contender exists, by Gordon Murray, not from the aero world, but from the new pinnacle of Motor Racing. Yet even this stunningly clever and ground breaking car cannot find a backer to mass market it.

I agree with you that without political or financial incentives things won't change much.

Will it happen in the future? I'm not so sure, but maybe new concepts for Personal Mobility might and  for those intetrested in driving something more functional and different  . 
With reference to "   A possible marketable modern micro currently would need to make best use of the newest of technology, this tends to be beyond stylists and designers, and is the preserve of the engineer"

I'm not sure what do you mean ?  I think that modern microcars in 2015, would have more in common with the likes of French and Italian Quadricycles, but  if they were going to be manufactured by OEM's, they might actually look like the Renault Twizy or the Toyota I-Road Concept:

http://www.toyota-global.com/showroom/toyota_design/concept_cars/gallery_i-road.html

Being a romantic and nostalgic enthusiast I would love to see a specialist car manufacture come up with something modern or retro in styling using modern technology ( twist and go scooters are very good donors and plentyful) and believe that it's still achievable by a decent designer/stylist but would always need a good engineer.

Gordon Murray is a great engineer and I'm a fan of his,  but he has always used designer/stylists for his cars( see the Mclaren F1 and others but maybe not the T25.... ) and in todays world if you want to sell a product  you will always need a good designer/stylist....:)

The Mev Eco-Exo is a minimalist scooter based three wheeler and is close in concept to what I think is achievable by a small specialist manufacture. 
I also think that a Cabin Scooter, being that of an updated Messerchmitt or Isetta is potentially feasable by a small specialist manufacture and if you use Retro inspired  design/styling  concepts like the image posted at the beginning of the thread, it could tap into the nostalgia and vintage enthusiast.

Maybe not all are going to like this as it happens often with modern retro design cars/motorcycles, but if it finds enough takers,  than the product finds its own niche.

I've owned an old Mini and was passengered in the  New Mini(2005)  and have to say that I liked them  both, but for different reasons.

The original was a pioneering design, the later is not and is only a bigger an updated retro inspired design that caters to the trendy and modern youngsters who would have never bought an original mini anyway....I'm not in that target group and would never spend that kind of money on it, but don't mind it.





« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 02:37:31 PM by fuoriserie »

fuoriserie

  • Occasional
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • fuoriserieDesign
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2014, 02:39:47 PM »


Slightly mystified by the use of the term reverse trike. I assume this is referring to the two wheels at the front. Not heard that before. It always seemed rather silly to have the wheels the other way round to me, but there we go, it gets the message across efficiently so I go with it.



It's the american definition of a three wheeler that has two front wheels and one rear wheel, sometimes even called the Tadpole configuration...

Big Al

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4578
  • Ranttweiler, biting the breeze block of banter
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2014, 10:53:57 AM »
I see Fiat have gone the same route with the 500 as Mini. A bigger car called a Mini. We have a bigger car called a 500. Its lost the looks, the style and the relevance. Just as modern Mini turned into Maxi the 500 is turning into the 127, or some such. Its all just market and silly nonesense.

Getting back to microcars. THey do have to be Micro. Not modern images of microcars the same size as a 2CV. Clearly there is a danger in that. Even Murrey Mints are large in microcar terms. For specialised, kit or component cars there is a clear niche market available. Quite what fills that will in no way please everyone, nor possibly be a pure microcar. It will be interesting, if advantages in materials and technology are used sensibly. The bar here is again the hostility of the State to any kind of low budget innervation, just as they warp the agenda on genuine green policy. A free market approach would be more likely to bring us something as radicle as, say, the Messerschmitt when it first appeared.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

marcus

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2676
    • http://marcusdemowbray.wordpress.com/
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2014, 12:29:39 PM »
The "new" Mini is now on its 3rd model number  (at least) and each one is bigger, the big Coppers and Clubman are now almost as big and heavy as a first series Range Rover.

The "new" Fiat 500 has just started its 2nd series...even bigger, and again almost the size of the original Range Rover. The "old new" 500 had 1300 cc engines, so why call it "500"? I reckon the latest biggest ones probably have even bigger engines.

Resources are running out so cars get bigger, have more components and equipment and use up more Planetary resources. It's a Mad,Mad, Mad, Mad World.
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

Rob Dobie

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 753
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2014, 02:11:54 PM »
the big Coppers and Clubman are now almost as big and heavy as a first series Range Rover.

Down my way the Coppers look like youngsters but I wouldn't want to cross one!  ;D
Ain't got nuffink now except memories.

marcus

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2676
    • http://marcusdemowbray.wordpress.com/
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2014, 04:41:46 PM »
Oops! COOPERS!
Just remember: as one door closes behind you, another slams in your face

AndyL

  • Quite Chatty
  • ****
  • Posts: 402
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2014, 07:26:25 PM »
Drivers seem to expect more and more equipment levels, ever improving safety levels etc. Then there's the changes made to accommodate pedestrian impact (e.g. frontal area has increased). Lots of glass on modern cars which is very heavy compared with steel.

Modern cars are built like tanks. They have built in roll cages, and everything is double or triple skinned so they survive impact much better than older cars, but it comes with a weight penalty. This is why companies are increasingly moving towards composites e.g. BMW with the i3 is a good example which utilizes a Carbon fibre shell mated to an aluminium chassis. Expensive however.

1959 LHD 3-wheel Isetta.

Chris Thomas

  • Administrator
  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1261
  • old Banana
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2014, 10:24:41 PM »
It is when the judges look young you want to worry.

Chris Thomas

Big Al

  • Prolific Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4578
  • Ranttweiler, biting the breeze block of banter
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2014, 07:27:56 AM »
Down my way the Coppers look like youngsters but I wouldn't want to cross one!  ;D
If you crossed one with a Tinpot Official would you get a Bronzed hunk?
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

fuoriserie

  • Occasional
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • fuoriserieDesign
Re: Mess-a-schmitt
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2014, 11:11:47 AM »

Resources are running out so cars get bigger, have more components and equipment and use up more Planetary resources. It's a Mad,Mad, Mad, Mad World.

I agree with you and that is why I believe there will be a shift in the next 5-10 years and if not political it will be social, due to Climate change and the unsustainability of our current cunsumption of natural resources.

In my personal opinion, Microcars will have a come back in our City centres as Personal Transport for future Urban Mobility especially in congested metropolis in Europe.

In the developing world you would need specifically designed vehicles that take into account their needs, roads and cultural traits.

Here is an interesting Design Brief for future young designers, to create a future vehicle where Mobility for All is the catch phrase:

http://www.michelinchallengedesign.com/the-challenge-for-2016/how-to-enter/


Mobility for All
Designing for the Next Frontier

Mobility is essential for personal transport, commerce, growth and access to clean water, health care and services for people around the world. Access to sustainable mobility is one of the cornerstones of economic and social progress, yet hundreds of millions of people have little or no access to mobility.

The Michelin Challenge Design theme for 2016 is “Mobility For All – Designing for the Next Frontier”. The challenge is to design a personal, family or commercial vehicle that provides simple, functional and affordable mobility to an underserved area in Southeast Asia, Central America, Central Africa or an area that you identify.

Just as the Citroen 2CV, Volkswagen Beetle and Ford Model T became iconic vehicles in their respective regions by enabling mobility; your design will help provide mobility to an area in need.

The flexibility, ingenuity, simplicity, ease of use and repair of your vehicle will be among the criteria used in judging your entry.

Michelin Challenge Design will recognize exciting and passionate designs that employ innovative vehicle architecture and technologies, without compromising functionality, safety or comfort. The vehicle’s capabilities must include dimensional specifications and visual detail of the tire/wheel assembly.


Read the Brief and it does make you think of a Microcar for the 21st century of some sorts....