Author Topic: Sachs Engine  (Read 13225 times)

Big Jim

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Sachs Engine
« on: June 29, 2015, 08:01:52 pm »
I retrieved my engine from storage today with a view to taking it into work and attempting to free the piston.
It does look a bit of a mess.
Does anyone know of any downloadable manuals and or parts guides for one of these little lumps. I will photograph every stage of the strip down but it is always nice to have reference.

Jim
If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer.
If that doesn't work, you have an electrical problem.

plas man

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2015, 08:17:15 pm »
nobel ?

Bob Purton

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2015, 08:33:58 pm »
Not an easy engine to rebuild. Be carefull when dismantling as there is a roller race inside that has non captive rollers which will fall out all over the floor. Also shimming of the gear shafts is critical, get it wrong and the gears will jump out. Not for the faint hearted! You can order an engine manual from the Messerschmitt owners club but you may have to join first. A good idea anyway then you can buy your engine parts from them. I take it you know the schmitt uses the same engine more or less?

Big Jim

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2015, 08:52:56 pm »
Sorry Plas Man I should have said its from a Nobel.

Thinking back to when I last played with it, I managed to remove part of the dynostart (the rotor) and remove the bolts that held the barrel in place. The crank at this point was free. After five years the crank is now stuck in what looks like TDC position with the barrel a couple of inches off the casing. This does mean that the gudgeon pin is accessible (ish) The piston skirt is damaged, (I hope this is due to my initial over enthusiastic attempts at removing the barrel). I had already decided to change the piston anyway after the bore had been honed so possibley the rest of the skirt may be removed and the gudgeon pin knocked out leaving me with just a barrel that can be soaked in warm diesel for a while.

I have just looked at the Messerschmitt owners club site and the manual is available as a download!
Thanks for the information Bob


Cheers
Jim

If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer.
If that doesn't work, you have an electrical problem.

Basket case

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2015, 09:06:55 pm »
Make sure the crank is at TDC when you split the cases. The con rod sits proud of the flywheels and can damage the engine casings (I learned the hard way). Fiddly engine to build but easy enough if you take your time. Reconditioned cranks are around £650........

Big Jim

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2015, 09:53:54 pm »
Thanks for the advice, I will have to unstick the crank first!
I am hoping that the crank is okay. As far as I know the engine was a good 'un, well running when it was laid up in the early 1960's, I know that the years take their toll but I am touching vast amounts of wood that apart from the piston and anything else that is missing every thing else is just stuck rather than seized after failing. The piston stuck at what I think  is around BDC. I know I am probably being over optimistic but....
If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer.
If that doesn't work, you have an electrical problem.

Big Al

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 09:36:44 am »
If its a Nob engine it should have a 10.2 barrel, rather than a 9.8 barrel. The Nob needs all the power a Sachs can muster, so take care of the barrel. A replacement might be painfully expensive as folk hold on to the best cylinders.
Ideally split the casing carefully and you will at least know where the shims were. That is not to say the rebuild will result in the same shimming, but it is a guide to where the shimming is likely to be needed.
Be aware that the points cover-plate is obscured by the frame on a Nob. You might want to budget for technology to save meddling with the inaccessible points.
Sachs is a good engine, but does not tolerate, or reward, bodge rebuilds. Sadly the prices of parts has got a bit silly. Shop around. 
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

plas man

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 11:15:33 am »
hi Big Jim ,  still looking for the manual (no good to a Bonder !)

plas man

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 03:20:01 pm »
still no manual , but have come across a Nobel BP lubrication chart - laminated for garage use - Foolscap size ( that's bigger than A4 for the young ones !)


Big Jim

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 09:18:40 pm »
Quote
still no manual , but have come across a Nobel BP lubrication chart - laminated for garage use - Foolscap size ( that's bigger than A4 for the young ones !)

That would be very interesting to see.
If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer.
If that doesn't work, you have an electrical problem.

Bob Purton

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2015, 10:24:26 pm »
Do you have the Nobel handbook?

Big Jim

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2015, 11:38:11 pm »
No, the only info I have is the downloadable manuals from the Messerchmitt owners club.

Where would I find such a gem?

On a slightly more positive note the big end on my engine is now freed off. All done nice and gentle like!

I work in the Motortrade (I run a garage and MOT station) My engine is sat on one of the work benches and every time I walked past it today it got a squirt of WD40 and a very gentle wiggle back and forth. By lunchtime there was a slight movement and by knockin' off time it was moving fore and aft nicely. I don't know if it will be salvageable (here's hoping) but there does not seem to any side to side play in the bearing. Sadly the same can't be said for the little end which is flopping about slightly, I don't know if the play is in the bearing or at the piston/gudgeon pin interface, I suspect bearing.

I am hoping that someone on here will now tell me that there should be side to side play in this bearing, but I doubt it!

Are the bearings available/changeable or is a new con rod on the cards?

Despite having intimate knowledge with the innards of Landrover engines and various modern cars, this engine is a new avenue of confusion for me.
If at first you don't succeed, try a bigger hammer.
If that doesn't work, you have an electrical problem.

plas man

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2015, 11:27:49 am »
not found the Sach's book yet , but the lube chart is to hand and in good fettle ,

as for the Nobel , I am not a fan , the 21E from Two Gates has better road holding ,

that said the car is well worth restoration , and hopefully kept by the restorer and not sold on .

Bob Purton

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2015, 11:53:03 am »
I only have a photo copy but if no one has a real one for sale I can copy the copy if you like. Definatley worth talking to Mike Ayriss of the Nobel register though as he has reproduced some parts and may have done the hand book too.

Basket case

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Re: Sachs Engine
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2015, 08:03:30 pm »
Best penetrating oil can be made at home. A mix of acetone (nail varnish remover) and transmission fluid. Google it - I didn't believe it but after trying it, I was amazed! Swear by it now and it costs pennies. Happy to shim up the gearbox if you get stuck. Measure the end float on the shafts before you split the casings so you know what to expect. For all the seals, springs, bearings etc (excluding the clutch bearing), budget around £225-ish.