Author Topic: Microcars on bike license please help  (Read 7680 times)

bikemike

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Microcars on bike license please help
« on: October 27, 2015, 07:36:37 PM »
Hi there biker by heart but thinking of the dog, DVLA has me chasing my tail. passed my category A in 2010 am I able to drive a Microcar Virgo Prestige HSE on my full motorbike license please if anybody knows?

plas man

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Re: Microcars on bike license please help
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 08:12:15 PM »
? , in the old (our day's  :o ) days bike licence for under 8 cwt without reverse , pass another test with reverse , then onto 4 wheels pass 4 wheeler test ,
were the single wheel was more than ? inch's appart it was classed as a 4 wheeler ( eg, Isetta 4 wheeler ) .
to-days law seems to be bike licence's for bikes - if you want threewheels you need car licence as well , nothing in between ?
I think the FHVC are studying the laws as they claim there will be few in the future to drive classic threewheelers .

( the FHVC fought for the road tax/ MOT exemption )

DaveMiller

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Re: Microcars on bike license please help
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 09:38:55 PM »
Hi there biker by heart but thinking of the dog, DVLA has me chasing my tail. passed my category A in 2010 am I able to drive a Microcar Virgo Prestige HSE on my full motorbike license please if anybody knows?

You can see a straightforward list of what you can drive at https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

The Virgo is a category B1, so the simple question is: does your licence show category B1?

(The Virgo isn't a three-wheeler, of course, but for those who are wondering, the website shows that you can drive a 3-wheeler on a motorcycle licence: up to 15kW on a category A1 licence, over 15kW on a category A.  And that you can drive a three-wheeler on a car licence if you're at least 21.)

Hope that helps.

bikemike

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Re: Microcars on bike license please help
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 10:06:04 PM »
thanks plas and dave very helpful. unfortunately don't have the B1 on licence only have A so will be looking into a 3 wheeler over 15kw many thanks again 

Big Al

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Re: Microcars on bike license please help
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 07:50:42 AM »
But if you take your driving test in a three wheeler, you only gain a three wheeler license. Also if a car is automatic, your restricted there too. Need to check if auto trike would be restrictive, as an old fogey I can drive pretty much anything.

Category AM

You can drive 2-wheeled or 3-wheeled vehicles with a maximum design speed of over 25km/h (15.5mph) but not more than 45km/h (28mph).

This category also includes light quad bikes with:

    unladen mass of not more than 350kg (not including batteries if it’s an electric vehicle)
    maximum design speed of over 25km/h (15.5mph) but not more than 45km/h (28mph)

Category A1

You can drive light motorbikes with:

    an engine size up to 125cc
    a power output of up to 11kW (14.75 bhp)
    a power to weight ratio not more than 0.1kW/kg

This category also includes motor tricycles with power output up to 15kW (20.1 bhp)

Category A2

You can drive motorbikes with a:

    power output up to 35kW
    power to weight ratio not more than 0.2kW/kg

The motorbike must also not be derived from a vehicle of more than double its power.

Category A

You can drive:

    motorbikes with a power output more than 35kW or a power to weight ratio more than 0.2kW/kg
    motor tricycles with a power output more than 15kW (20.1 bhp)

In addition you have -

Light vehicles and quad bikes

Category B1

You can drive motor vehicles with 4 wheels up to 400kg unladen or 550kg if they’re designed for carrying goods.

So Category AM really covers French Fridges. The Norsja I had was made to fit in this class by being geared down to 28 MPH, as that was what we got by following it in a big car. Clearly it would have gone faster had the gearing been altered. It wasmade to fit British rules, thus a one off. 

Category A1 covers things like the Type 70 Invalid Carriage coming out of class and into this system. Bargain.

Categary B1 is Ligier, Microcar and Axiam land, I think.

From 2013, Telegraph you have this.


 Driving licence legislation for three-wheelers changed dramatically this January with a mandatory motorcycle licence requirement and miniumum age of 21 years for all new licence holders intending to drive tricycles, whether they be motorcycle or car-based such as the new Morgan Three Wheeler or Triking. A consultation document on these fundamental changes was circulated, yet we understand it wasn’t sent to the UK’s 12 three-wheeler manufacturers.

All of those we contacted expressed surprise and astonishment at the licence changes.

“We were surprised when informed by a customer of the pending changes to the three-wheeler licencing regulations,” said Steve Morris, managing director of the Morgan Motor Company. “As the UK’s leading manufacturer of three-wheeled vehicles we would have welcomed the opportunity to have been consulted by the DVLA during their decision making process. Our involvement may have resulted in a more reasonable outcome...”

Richard Oakes, proprietor of Blackjack, makers of the Zero three-wheeler, also wasn’t consulted and said “Whether intentional, or just muddled thinking, this action on licensing by the DVLA could diminish the activity of three-wheeler drivers and manufacturers to zero, over time. No wonder we weren’t consulted. So much for the philosophy of choice! – Looks like a duck?”

Alan Layzell, proprietor of Triking, also expressed surprise and disappointment at the licencing requirement changes and confirmed he had not been consulted either.

The changes will affect all those passing their test after January 19 this year, while those with existing rights to drive a B1 category (lightweight vehicles) three-wheeler will retain grandfather rights to drive such vehicles. We also understand that disabled motorists will not have to take a motorcycle test to drive a three-wheeler, but at present there is no test structure in place.

Those existing licence holders who retain their rights, will find that on swapping or replacing their licences there are three new categories. The first, AM, is an entitlement to ride mopeds with a maximum speed of between 25-45kmh, small three-wheelers up to 50cc and light quadricycles weighing less than 350kg. The other categories are P and Q, which include two- and three-wheeled mopeds with maximum speeds of up to 50 and 25km/h respectively.

While there are categories of small vehicles which qualify under the new AM licensing requirements (such as those 50cc, four-wheeled vehicles popular in France), from now on, tricycles will be considered part of the motorcycle licensing regime, which splits vehicles into small, medium and unlimited according to engine size, power output and power-to-weight ratio.

At 17 years, A1 licence holders will have to pass compulsory basic training and a theory test before being allowed to ride or drive machines with engines with capacities of less than 125cc, producing less than 11kW and with power-to-weight ratios not exceeding 0.1kW/kg.

At 19 years riders and drivers can graduate to a category A2 licence with power restricted to no more than 35kW and a power-to-weight ratio of no more than 0.2kW/kg.

And at 21 years riders/drivers can graduate to a full category A licence for machines of unlimited power output. There is also a direct access scheme, but the age restriction still applies.

According to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), the change is a result of the third European Directive on Driving Licences, which mandates that three-wheeler licences require motorcycle rather than car licences. This harmonisation of licensing requirements across the EU is justified as a safety measure, although there is no specific three-wheeler instruction given in either the motorcycle or car tests.

The move will affect the owners of the 13,349 three-wheeled vehicles weighing 450kgs or below in the UK (there are a further 1,896 motorcycles with sidecars known to the DVLA). The DVLA says it consulted widely on the change, sending out 6,400 notifications of the consultation paper to driver and rider training associations, trade associations, individuals, special interest groups and those associated with the police and judiciary system. Yet this number doesn’t appear to have included any of the UK’s 12 manufacturers of three-wheelers, many of which we spoke to in the course of researching this article.

According to Brian Clutterbuck of the Morgan Three Wheeler Club, who has seen the responses, the response rate for the consultation process was just 7.6 per cent (489 replies) and he says he can find no more than 191 comments within that, with just one specific to three-wheelers, which suggests that the licences should remain separate.

“We’d just like to know why the licence requirements have been changed,” he said. “There doesn’t appear to have been widespread support for the move.”

The zeal to harmonise three-wheeler driver licensing requirements does not appear to have spread across the corridor at the DVLA to the offices responsible for vehicle licensing. Three-wheelers continue to attract a bizarre series of requirements according to weight and type. It gets particularly weird for three-wheelers over 450kg in weight which are taxed and treated as motorcycles, require a motorcycle licence to drive, yet are classified as cars and have to be MoT tested at car rather than tricycle centres.

So there you have it. A total mess of a system, thanks to the spot bots paid huge sums of money to make things work. Another winner. I do not think half of the law checkers will have a clue what is legal themselves!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 08:33:57 AM by Big Al »
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plas man

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Re: Microcars on bike license please help
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2015, 02:22:15 PM »
and that's only driving licences , the laws regarding construction and use for said 3 wheelers are completely different to 4 wheelers .
when the Plas gets MOT'ed  I usually take the registration document to prove date of registration (seat belt laws ) .