Author Topic: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?  (Read 16602 times)

Jim Janecek

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2010, 07:07:36 PM »
please explain how "tactical bidding" could result in a lower price for something.

 ::)

Stuart Cyphus

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2010, 07:24:23 PM »
 It could be very tatical indeed if the tatical bidder decided not to tactically bid.....    ;)   (Think about it)

Big Al

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2010, 07:42:01 PM »
Ah, it looks like you tumbled to the little amusing subterfuge Bob. Not that I was going out of the way to be secretive. I am happy if things remain factual and friendly with some humour chucked in. Besides I have been ill and the PC and this forum has entertained me since Chrimbo.

I have a passing interest in the alledged value of Tigers as I have one to recreate. I have no idea why I am doing this as I never had a huge desire to own one but I fell into it. I am not valuing what I produce at anything like some of the values being banded about but it would be nice to know the effort of doing the car has some pay back as it will take a lot of time. I was looking at about £30k-£35k if I can get it the way I want. It has its chassis plate and original engine so it is not a fake but neither is it original. Still that is for the future and what goes up can come down. I derive more pleasure from the fact I bought it by accident which really annoys a lot of people.

I would agree with most of the observations made. I am sure the market is slightly different in the States and of course we are all generalising. However it is interesting to compare notes, not that I claim to be right. I remain open to alternate views. Despite the poor economic times it seems to be a sellers market and not much is coming up that has to be sold. So much is put into a long sale cycle unless there is a ready buyer waiting. There are a fair few folks clearing the decks happy to gain a windfall on an old purchase they got for next to nothing and good luck to them. I still have several cars I was given to take away or were £100. Those were the days

Tactical bidding - fav is to bid into the reserve and then withdraw the bid. Not unknown.
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Grant Kearney

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2010, 10:39:20 PM »
please explain how "tactical bidding" could result in a lower price for something.

 ::)

Observe the bidding pattern which suggests the highest bidder was 'serious' and was bidding to win.  Other interested parties observe the multiple bids (along with being the highest bidder from nearly the start) and conclude that they have little or no chance of completing so don't bid.  Do this once on US E-Bay and repeat on UK E-Bay but reduce your top bid.  No ones wins the auction but the closing price is much lower than the expected sale price.  Tg500 prices fall world wide.  Just the opposite of what has to be done to increase the value of Peels.   
Think I must sell one of my Peels privately and buy 2 Tg500s  ;D
Attending E-Bay academy is money well spent

Peelpower

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2010, 12:08:13 AM »
Hi scootacar, do you reckon the TG mafia has also something to do with the Peel mafia? Same members maybe? ;-)

Bob Purton

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2010, 09:32:27 AM »
In the 1970's and early 80's , the boon years for the antiques trade I used to buy at Bonhams, Sotheby's, Christies and the provincial sales rooms too. In my specialist field there was, and I emphasise WAS a ring in operation, the purpose being to try and keep priced down. The way it "works" is that one person bids for the ring so they dont all bid against each other. After the sale in some pub or back room is the "knockout". The lots are in effect re auctioned among the ring members. The difference between the price paid at the real sale and the price bid by the winning ring member at the knock out is then divided amongst the remaining ring members. In effect members can walk away with cash in there pockets without having any intention of buying a single lot and this is one of the systems downfalls. The other downfall is that it seldom work effectively. An overseas buyer would generally appear during the sale and take the price up to the items value anyway which is why I dont buy into Scootacars theory. The third downfall is that it is fraudulent and highly illegal! Dealers actually went to prison for it! I would never join the ring despite being threatened on more than one occasion. Today's society is just as corrupt if not more so and what amazes me about ebay is that they seem to get away with things that the real sale rooms got prosecuted for. Fakes are sold on a daily basis with no of little come back on ebay, they claims that as agents its the sellers responsibility and not theirs, this is not so legally. On the "shimmy" bidding side of things, they give it a nice friendly name much like car thieves being called "joy riders", they may ban shimmy bidders but really this action is fraud! I would like to know if any guilty ebayers have actually been prosecuted for it. And another thing whilst I'm having a rant, at a real auction you cant just withdraw your bid willy nilly!!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 09:34:20 AM by Bob Purton »

Big Al

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2010, 10:31:36 AM »
Ebay has been slowly moving away from being a real auction site. It has the benefit of any multi-national company of being half in and half out of the domestic market here. Since the management changed, did they overpay on borrowed money?, the drive has been to increase the take by increasing the number of deals and the % of each trade. I do not think eBay gives a flying fig about its old core client base and it has become a rather unpleasant place to do business. Ebay was not a genuine auction site when it started and I am not sure what title covers its current incarnation but it sounds more like your meeting in the pub after the ring has obtained the item than the original auction we hoped to attend.
I have never been very keen on auctions as they contain quite a few dodgy practices. The best bidder at most auctions I have been to is Mr Wall, though he has become more sophisticated as sometimes he is not at the auction but somewhere else on the other end of a 'phone. The advantage of a real auction is that you can see most of the opposition which often gives you clues if you are going to be a buyer. Yes the ring can be present but as you say this is policed. However there is still the auctioneer's mates and the missed bid. Worst case Bonham's, I think, at Beaulieu. I think I could have let a bomb off and not got my bid in on one lot. Even a small informal auction can cause grief, MOC last year with Jon Hunts bid nearly dishonoured by all accounts. No auctions are dodgy and eBay's especially so. I have virtually stopped using it, a bummer as I have stuff to clear but it is more effective use of time to bin the cheap stuff now. Did you notice Autojumble is coming back, only one reason.

What do the Peel Mafia/Tiger Mafia threaten to do. Leave an Isetta head on your pillow? Attack you and burst a few blackheads? Do they keep waterpistols in a glasses case? Do they threaten to hubcap you? Are there rumours of them extracting two stroke in a protection racket? I always wondered what was under that lid in the boot of a Tiger. It is a small roulette wheel. The moncoque is great for craps. No wonder the crowds gather round them when they turn up at an event. Three Peels in a row, which is the dollar under? Sorry wrong car, sir, it was fake one this time. Is it more threatening than the Modified Berkeley MFI!
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For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2010, 10:51:14 AM »
Ah, I remember Mr Wall so well! However it was the chandelier in the London room! As you say, now there are telephones manned by members of staff Messrs Wall and Chandelier are redundant.

Jim Janecek

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2010, 02:04:16 PM »
I guess I can answer my own question as there is a way to "tactically" bid to lower the price of something but there must not be a Reserve on it to begin with.
You need three people (or three accounts).
Say an item is £10 and it could go for £2000
You want to obtain it for £20
You get the three bidders in there and both place bids of £20,  £2000 and £2500 respectively or even higher.

Anyone else looking at the listing sees the price as being over £2000 and says "too rich for my blood"
A few moments before the end of the listing, the top TWO bidders retract their bids.
Now the highest bid is £20 and hopefully it stays that way without anyone noticing and it "sells" for £20

This used to be prevalent on eBay in the past but they have changed their rules and you cannot yank your bid at the last moment.
Also- quite a few people use automatic Sniping services so their bids are not placed until the last 6 seconds of the listings, this will end up defeating the above technique.
It also tends to throw a wrench into anyone's "plans" to obtain an item cheaper somehow as you really cannot predict who else is going to come in at the last moment.

Case-in-point:  There was a scooter instruction manual I wanted.  I did not think anyone would be willing to pay more than $25 for it, so I put in a bid of $125 just to "be sure"
Also- I was being cocky and liked entering a high number.
The auction ended with the price at $122.50!
Turns out the second highest bidder was a friend of mine in Canada with the exact same plan, except he only bid up to $120.
No one else was willing to bid over $25 though.

Grant Kearney

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Re: Is this the TG500 sold
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2010, 12:24:41 PM »
If you take the time to look at the completed listing on E-Bay, 260552363903, you will find that it has sold for £44600.  Looks like 'tactical' bidding has 'paid off' for some lucky person.  All most as good as winning 56 milion on the lottery ;D
Expect to see this fine vehicle at this years MOC rally in July

Bob Purton

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2010, 02:00:45 PM »
I just looked at it on completed listings and it says reserve not met with red numbers as opposed to green numbers [green indicating sold red indicating unsold] Are you telling us a deal was done after the auction finished?

Jim Janecek

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2010, 02:18:54 PM »
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260552363903

ended Feb 14
you must be looking at the one that ended Feb 08 with 20 bids and Reserve Not Met
this one does not show up in "completed listings" for the seller.

so this was the third time it was listed, perhaps the Seller struck a deal with the Buyer to sell at that price but only through eBay?
That happens on occasion.   What is odd (for me) is that there is no bid history, it just says "Sold for £44,600"
normally under the date the listing ended is "BIDS".  There is nothing there.  New "feature" from eBay?  I don't know.
maybe he listed it as a "Classified Ad" instead this time and that is what it looks like when someone agrees to buy it (technically no bidders).

update: I just checked several completed listings I was watching that were either Classified Ads or "Buy It Now" and the ones that sold also do not show any record of a Bidder so that is what the completed listing looks like after someone agreed to buy at a fixed price.

I also don't see how one can tell if the bidder for this was from the UK.   Just because it was listed on UK eBay does not restrict it to UK buyers.
anyways, looks like it has actually sold though.  Congratulations to the new owner.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 02:21:32 PM by JimJanecek »

Grant Kearney

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2010, 02:38:16 PM »


I also don't see how one can tell if the bidder for this was from the UK.   Just because it was listed on UK eBay does not restrict it to UK buyers.
anyways, looks like it has actually sold though.  Congratulations to the new owner.


One can tell by observing the bid history of a certain well known character who goes by the name 'Peelnut'. You will see that he won the auction.  So Ferdi you were correct, the Peel Mafia were involved all along  ;D
One now wonders if 'Peelnut' will attend Ken Wager's small gathering with the Tg before shipping it home or get it back to the UK in time for the MOC rally and cause further financial heart ache for the Tiger mafia  ???


Jim Janecek

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Bob Purton

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Re: Is this the TG500 we should be watching?
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2010, 03:54:26 PM »
Well done Andy! There must be good money in fiberglass molding!