Author Topic: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos  (Read 17461 times)

Big Al

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 10:08:33 AM »
worth a try ! there is certainly no definitive source at present for photo's of Gordons , early Bonds etc in a detailed way but if a pic is posted of a restoration done by oneself and it is viewed by other "experts" as incorrect does one say nothing so as to not cause offence or say something ? i have said this before on the subject of original lights etc. we should have a library of photos  showing how it would have been in the day. note i don't say how it must be restored . do owners of isettas , messerschmitts etc. need it ? certainly recent chat on the forum has dug up detail on Treinkel wheels , trim etc. that is not archived anywhere else. 

Not just that but a forum to verify that what is remembered as info is correct might be handy. So I can happily report there a 5 wobbles in a wibble. If this is then supported that is a stronger bit of information. I might be incorrect in which case a challenge can be made. Say give it a star rating on corroboration. If the info can be factually corroborated with archive than give it, say, a book icon. The info on the site then comes with the invitation to improve it and with some kind of strength of accuracy as a resource.  Built up over 10 years or longer, and as first hand knowledge passes, this will build into a valuable resource.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Barry

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 07:34:00 PM »
Here is a link to the bones of a photo register.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ao7dnotn45wfm9o/eDRKSQP4FD

Some contributors have a share to these folders and can upload or move photos around (and edit descriptions).


richard

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2012, 03:15:21 PM »
sorry still haven't got around to dropbox , just peeped and as suspected it's mixed up - this is just like flikr ! under Bond are Reliants and under Gordon are Vernons Vi-Car  invalid carriage - yes they are associated . with subtitles they might make sense .
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Barry

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2012, 04:11:28 PM »
I have put the various photos that I have into folders where I think they go.  I am not an expert.  The beauty of sharing Dropbox with all Rumcars contributors is that each ecpert can rearrange the photos into more sensible categories.  No one person holds the key.  It is for everyone.

Give it a try Richard, move the photos that are in the wrong place to a better folder.  Have a look at Messerschmitt which has three folders.  KR175,  KR200 and TG500.

Unlike Flikr, these photos can be controlled by Rumcars contributors.

There are lots of photos in the parent folder that need filing but I dont know what some of the cars are.  I bet someone does?

If anyone wants to send me their email address, I will invite them.

john Meadows

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2012, 04:43:22 PM »
Hello Isetta Owner
I admire your enthusiasm for Microcars and the idea of sharing photos and even information.

However a word of caution here. I put a lot of time and effort into the Meadows Frisky Website, both in  accumulating the information and ensuring that it is information you can trust. Sites were information  can be added by any one at any time can be a problem. Who will be responsible for the accuracy  of the information on your site, without this check a site can become of little value.

Sharing photos that are yours to share is ok but what about those that are not, such as  those that are copyright.

For instance  your Meadows Frisky page  includes several photos "lifted"  from my site  including the Goodwood photo on the Title page which is Copyright.

If you intend using/distributing this photo would you please contact the copyright holder and gain his permission, as I did, you will find him on the links page.

 Regarding the other photos, I am happy to share these provided an acknowledgement is given and a link to my website included.

Many Thanks

John.
www.meadowsfrisky.co.uk.

Barry

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2012, 09:40:54 AM »
Very good to hear from you John and receive your valued comments.
Sorry for the delay in replying.  We have had a couple of  'no computer' days over Christmas.

The concept of the photo register initially came from the idea of making photos of the actual registered cars 'Rumcars' available to all members, rather than as hard copies in a folder in Jeans system.
This was met with some resistance and people were worried about registration numbers being shown and other concerns.

There is a general interest in having information about unusual microcars available in a central on-line library and probably the best place for this is the Rumcars website.
However, the resource is not available to implement this and also which individual might take on the labour intensive task of maintaining it?

The site of Denis - microcarfan.com is a good example of a resource on a few unusual french microcars.  http://www.microcarfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=5&id=14&Itemid=26
The Moped gallery is a good example - http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/nacc/gallery/galindex.html
Members cars at - http://www.microcar.org/gallery/v/Member+Photos/

Burt these are websites and need maintenance and attention from an an administrator with website knowledge.

My interim solution is just to supply a storage area on the net for photos and other information to be collected whilst knowledge exists.
This information could be used on a proper website in the future.
The idea is to make it belong only to the registered contributors to Rumcars forum.  It is not a website and is therefore a private / group resource.
Rather than one person having the time-consuming task of trying to upload all photos and information, the plan would be for experts within the rumcars circles to self administrate the content.

I fully acknowledge your concerns on copyright and everyone with access must not knowingly add copyright material.
I am not sure about the rules on coptyright but I thought that, as a private resource rather than public, the copyright issue did not apply?
There is some concern that any scanned image from an old magazine etc. could be subject to copyright infringement?  This would also apply to the Rumcars forum?
Is it not the case that a photo must have the inscription 'Copyright' on it in order to be protected.  Any such photo would not be allowed in the photo register.

I have quickly added lots of photos and information on all sorts of cars just to get things going and see if it would work.
Ideally much of the content would be from Rumcars contributors personal archives - particularly the history of individual cars from different owners.  I may be asking too much.

I will remove the photos that have been borrowed from your site and leave it to you to add relevant content.  This content should have your personal information added before uploading if required.
I would love to add acknowledgements on each photo or document but it would become  an administrative nightmare, especially as the content is being added by many contributors.
This storage resource will only work if minimal maintenance is required.

For each make of car there will be a Word document for information and links and this is where links to web sites like yours (which is fantastic) will be made available.
I think that any photos that have ever been uploaded to the Rumcars forum can be included in the storage area as they have already been 'released' to the contributors.



Regards
Barry



richard

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2012, 09:51:40 AM »
for my fourpennyworth i know nothing about copyright - i am sure i ought to learn though. i can see no value whatsoever of a collection of modern photos of restorations . i would add that i would if they were carefully anotated with notes as to deviations from standard - but that would never happen . i
i find of interest , and surely the only thing of interest to the RUM movement ,  is Period photos for reference . if they are all subject to copyright then forget it ! i can already see several thousand pics of messerschmitt, isetta restorations on numerous sites .
shame though  :'(     
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Big Al

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2012, 10:26:09 AM »
The proven originator of a picture or item of literature has a copyright to his intellectual property. It is up to him how he chooses to deal with that. It can be given away by being published freely or sold to someone else with or without copyright. Clearly having paid for an image a buyer would normally wish to protect his investment. However if it is chosen to protect its reproduction than a simple note that it is under protection means use without permission can be pursued over it. If that would be worth while or effective is another matter. 
I understand advertising counts as an image being placed in the public domain, so they can be reproduced.
There are a number of pictographic business that make good money from owning vast collections of original pictures. This is there protection.

This is why, sadly, you cannot have a private collection and allow images of it to be taken by someone else as you cannot then control the propagation of those images and maintain, for instance, security or restrict information you do not want in the public domain. I have been allowed to take pics of private collections on the understanding that I do not show the images to others. I do not. This is a privilege over and above being allowed to view the collections in the first place. Certain folk would not be allowed through the door as they have a more than generous nature over information which these owners see as a danger if spread far and wide.

So you have a wide range of folk some of whom will be more than happy to post information and pictures through to others who remain secret but are happy to watch the antics of those who are happy to offer up info for free. Its a strange old world.

I have had several instances of my articles being nicked by publications via a trusted third party. Technically I could have made a case as my permission was not obtained to reproduce the item and the item was not placed in the public domain previously. I view this as fundamentally pointless as the damage has been done and settle for isolating the greedy publication from my output and no longer trusting the failed third party. A simple bit of research will reveal the law breakers as they receive no info from me other than things like date lists. They only hurt themselves by attempting to be smart arses.

Have you noticed that despite the internet much detailed information is perhaps now harder to access than it used to be? That will be why and the prediction that information will be the new commodity to be traded was very accurate. All very anti club activity unfortunately.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2012, 10:54:53 AM »
Hmmm. This has cause a rift between moped clubs, articles being nicked against the express orders of those owning the intellectual rights. This resulted in suing and pants were lost!

I wonder if it might be worth having a chat with others who run forums with a gallery, maybe Elvis Payne could advise?

Barry

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2012, 06:33:13 PM »
Hello Isetta Owner
I admire your enthusiasm for Microcars and the idea of sharing photos and even information.

However a word of caution here. I put a lot of time and effort into the Meadows Frisky Website, both in  accumulating the information and ensuring that it is information you can trust. Sites were information  can be added by any one at any time can be a problem. Who will be responsible for the accuracy  of the information on your site, without this check a site can become of little value.

Sharing photos that are yours to share is ok but what about those that are not, such as  those that are copyright.

For instance  your Meadows Frisky page  includes several photos "lifted"  from my site  including the Goodwood photo on the Title page which is Copyright.

If you intend using/distributing this photo would you please contact the copyright holder and gain his permission, as I did, you will find him on the links page.

 Regarding the other photos, I am happy to share these provided an acknowledgement is given and a link to my website included.

Many Thanks

John.
www.meadowsfrisky.co.uk.


John
I have added your website address to each of the photos borrowed from your site.  I have removed the Goodwood one.  What do you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j1yrnj21e69u0o6/_dbZcldnry

Regards  Barry

Big Al

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2012, 09:11:54 AM »
If each picture has the contact details of the person putting it up then since this is effectively a wall that person will be responsible for supplying the image rather than the lot falling on the 'administrator'. That should persuade folk to think before posting willy nilly and it allows any offence to be dealt with in private.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

john Meadows

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2012, 12:20:56 PM »
Hello Barry
Thank you for putting the information on the photos from my site it is appreciated

I can't help but think you are re inventing the wheel here!

If you enter the name of any microcar into Google and select "images" you will get hundreds of pictures of that microcar and by selecting any of those pictures a direct link back to its source with its qualifying  information.

Try it with Meadows Frisky, all your photos are already there plus many more!

Relying on "other experts" to vet information on your site is not on, you must be responsible for the information you put out, I can tell you from experience its a very large responsibility just covering the Frisky, let alone the all the others you list.

Once again are you re inventing the wheel, the RumCars site has an extensive list of links to experts on virtually any car you may want to know about and a note on this forum will soon cover the really obscure ones.

I agree totally with Rusty Chromes comments on Copyright  in the Announcements section, he hits the nail on the head.

My articles for RumCar News are covered by an understanding that The article and its illustrations has been supplied for publication in "RumCar News" magazine and may not be reproduced elsewhere, in whole or part without the authors written consent.Not an unreasonable request, and in the thirty years of running the Register it has never been a problem and I can't remember ever refusing any one

Regarding Lightweight Dickie's comments on original period car photos, (i.e. before the owners got to work on them!) Thanks for the idea LD, I will look into it and see if I can do something on the FR site for you, OK it will only be on the Frisky, but what else can you expect from" a one trick pony" !!

Regards John


Barry

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2012, 01:29:24 PM »
I agree with you John.

The original idea was to record photos of actual Rumcars registered cars and try to unearth hitherto unknown photos from a vehicles past together with a nice picture of it - as it is now.
It was more to do with the Rumcars - Register.  The idea has progressed, perhaps along the wrong path.

I know you can type in Bond on Google and get milliyons of pictures of bonds - including James Bond and Bondage etc..
The other point of the photo register was to put dates to cars, giving a sort of pictorial history and have a place where one could quickly navigate from one marque to another.

I don't think it is quite reinventing the wheel but I take your point.

Also it would have been good to extract some original photos from peoples archives and albums rather than those already available on Google etc.

I once thought of creating a database using registration numbers.  In theory, all old photos that show a registration number could be searched and the history of a vehicle discovered. 
I am always looking out for my Morris Isis in films - LDP 135.  It originally belonged to a Metropolitan Police chief from 1955 until he retired so may turn up in a London scene?

It is very easy for me to put lettering directly onto a photo as I have the program for it.  For others it is much more difficult.

Then there are all of the copyright issues...............
I think the hill is too steep and so I may just keep the photos that I have for my own enjoyment, adding to them from wherever I find them.

Best Regards
Barry

Bob Purton

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2012, 02:08:47 PM »
Dont  be put off Barry. True, you can Google a car and see images but it would be nice to have them all at your finger tips on one site. Reinventing the wheel? I dont agree at all. Regarding accurate info on the cars, errors and myths are path of the course, they often get corrected as time goes by,  there have been enough mistakes made about Friskys over the years, some Frisky owners I speak to still insist John has a lot of it wrong to this day.[No offence John, I know very little about Friskys!] It doesnt matter really. Some details will always remain a matter of opinion. Now the Weiner museum is about to disappear we will need more reference sites, the fact that Bruces site is riddled with errors but is still much valued reinforces the case. You stick with it!

richard

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Re: Sharing Photos - Microcar Register of Photos
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2012, 02:35:13 PM »
agree with you bob - stick with it for a while yet barry . the problem is i have pics . as mentioned earlier ,of scootacar,coronet.powerdrive etc. though previously published have not been widely seen for years  ( cannot find them on any other site )- but someone may have copyright on them . hmmmm
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977