Author Topic: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016  (Read 7280 times)

DaveMiller

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FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« on: April 26, 2016, 09:38:13 PM »
Well done to "Rusty Chrome" for having his Bond restoration so prominently featured in this month's Practical Classics.  :)

richard

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 10:11:32 PM »
I didnt know it was malcolms , must get it
outside of a dog a book is mans best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read .Groucho Marx 1895-1977

Big Al

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 09:47:09 AM »
I hope the edition is pop riveted together, not stapled! Good job, need more sensible and in depth stuff on Microcars in the media.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
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Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 12:50:24 PM »
Thanks Dave. In case it's not clear from the article, the repair section next to the bulkhead is held by countersunk solid aluminium rivets with a thin coating of epoxy adhesive underneath. The only place I've used pop-rivets on the car is to replace them where they were used originally - where the front of the hood is attached to the frame above the windscreen and where the bottom of the seat back panel attaches to the top of the floor strengthener.
As well as the practical difficulties in welding curved bits of thin aluminium without distortion or blow through, the other thing that eventually convinced me that I was approaching the bulkhead repair from the wrong angle was learning that the process itself of welding aluminium will usually compromise the strength of the material. Fitting a repair section to bit of curved steel is a piece of cake in comparison to doing it in aluminium with amateur equipment.
Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

steven mandell

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 04:58:18 PM »
I'd like to see the repair technique up close as well as the whole article.
Can anyone figure out how to post a link?
Who knows, I might need to know this some day if I have a mishap with my Alloy bodied AC Petite.

Nimrod Cabin

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2016, 01:15:58 PM »
Thanks Dave. In case it's not clear from the article, the repair section next to the bulkhead is held by countersunk solid aluminium rivets with a thin coating of epoxy adhesive underneath. The only place I've used pop-rivets on the car is to replace them where they were used originally - where the front of the hood is attached to the frame above the windscreen and where the bottom of the seat back panel attaches to the top of the floor strengthener.
As well as the practical difficulties in welding curved bits of thin aluminium without distortion or blow through, the other thing that eventually convinced me that I was approaching the bulkhead repair from the wrong angle was learning that the process itself of welding aluminium will usually compromise the strength of the material. Fitting a repair section to bit of curved steel is a piece of cake in comparison to doing it in aluminium with amateur equipment.

Well done Malcolm, we went to Sheffield Park station on drive it day and I saw PC on the shelf, very good article, bean tins indeed!!??
7 x Bond Minicars ABCCDDF

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2016, 08:00:11 PM »
I'd like to see the repair technique up close as well as the whole article.
Can anyone figure out how to post a link?
Who knows, I might need to know this some day if I have a mishap with my Alloy bodied AC Petite.

Unfortunately I did neglect my photographic journey at this stage of the restoration. The first repair patch I made me took a couple of weeks to make, so by the time I'd burnt through and distorted that one and then done the same thing with the second, I was too close to giving up entirely to worry about photographs. This is the third and final patch in situ. As well as curving top to bottom and having a flange on the bottom and that other curved flange at the front, it also has a larger radius at the rear than it does at the front. I did manage to borrow a metal shrinker/stretcher to help make the front flange after my second go, but an English wheel would have cut out a lot of the metal bashing.

The patch is held in place by about 50 or so 1/8" dia countersunk rivets spaced according to recommendations I found at the time (see http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14018/css/14018_547.htm for example). The adhesive I used was Bondloc B3298. The leading edge of the original bodywork was also feathered so that the step between old and new material was the minimum I could make it. This is a highly stressed part of the car and the damage on mine had been made worse because of a broken off reinforcing section that fits behind this corner.

 

Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

Chris Thomas

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2016, 11:48:44 AM »
Dear Steve

Practical classics magazine I think will be right up your street, it is like reading Als words but with step by step colour pictures, for all the classic cars you can think of. In the same edition as Malcolm's Bond was, there is also an autopsy of the Chevrolet Corvair engine, Fixing dodgy electrical connections, Tracking down and repairing oil leaks, setting and using a wheel machine to form curved body panels, plus 12 video step by step course. At 179 pages a worthy read
You can subscribe or get back issues by going to www.greatmagazines.co.uk or call +441858 438884
Chris Thomas

steven mandell

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2016, 11:51:43 AM »
Thanks for posting so explicitly.
Bondlock was used between the panels.  Any special considerations for choosing, and what did you use for filler?
Was the feathering of your original material 's edge done just on the inside surfaces?
Nice to see how it all turned out before primer coat hides the beauty of the craftsmanship beneath it.
Still wondering how you were able to form the curves so smoothly, and especially how you formed a flange whilst traversing a curved surface.
What type of metal shrinking devise was employed, rather than just a shrinking hammer that to my knowledge does not create this effect or degree of unidirectional and necessarily somewhat pie section shaped undulations?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 12:00:24 PM by steven mandell »

plas man

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2016, 04:13:55 PM »
time will tell , no matter what fixing's/filling you attempt to achieve Mr Villiers will sort it out - even factory welding in the same area .

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2016, 07:59:28 PM »
Thanks for posting so explicitly.
Bondlock was used between the panels.  Any special considerations for choosing, and what did you use for filler?
Was the feathering of your original material 's edge done just on the inside surfaces?
Nice to see how it all turned out before primer coat hides the beauty of the craftsmanship beneath it.
Still wondering how you were able to form the curves so smoothly, and especially how you formed a flange whilst traversing a curved surface.
What type of metal shrinking devise was employed, rather than just a shrinking hammer that to my knowledge does not create this effect or degree of unidirectional and necessarily somewhat pie section shaped undulations?
I can't remember who it was but someone had the Bondloc on offer at the time, it should in theory be stronger and more petrol resistant than the Araldite, but in retrospect I'd have probably traded that for the longer setting time and therefore flexibility of positioning offered by Araldite. Getting things into position and then holding them in position is easy if you have long enough g-clamps, but invariably they always seemed to be too short. The price of them also seems to quadruple with each extra inch of depth. I was lucky enough to find some obscure french made clamps at a car boot sale with a very long reach which were a godsend throughout. As were several different types of metal working pliers that I got at a bike autojumble at the Sammy Miller museum. The guy who sold them didn't have a clue what they were for, so they were a real bargain, although you need a lot of hand and arm muscle to work with them - even on alloy. I also found some very long nosed vice grips.
The feathering was on the leading edge of the inside of the old metal, I'd forgotten the new metal was also offset with a flanging tool - which is a bit like an old tin-opener, you crank the edge through and it gives it an off-set of a mm or two. Also from boot sales and autojumbles were a couple of proper bossing mallets. I made a sandbag and also had a couple of tree stumps, one of which I dished out the top of, and the other I used on it's side when I was encouraging curves. I also bought a set of cheap metal working hammers and dollys and polished them up. Then it's just a lot of reading, planning and practice, tapping away to get the curves where you want them. The biggest suprise was how gentle you have to tap, you can make a big curve in the sheet by whacking it, but you'll then find it very much harder to smooth out. You also need a good pair of ear defenders!

The shrinker/stretcher is the sort of thing in the following link. You bolt it onto something solid, put the flange between the jaws, give the lever a steady yank and it sort of nips the metal together (if you're shrinking) between the jaws which as you move along the flange, grandually pulls it round in a curve. I'd recommend panel beating to anyone who wants to get fit, but hates using a gym.

The final link about making an aluminium scuttle was very helpful in pointing the way forward for several aspects of the repair patch.

One book I found very useful throughout was Car Mechanics - Panel Beating & paint refinishing ISBN 1873098294

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/52-METZ-Shrinker-Stretcher-heavy-duty-Garage-Body-Shop-Workshop-Metal-tool-/391166484766?hash=item5b1356e11e:g:wNkAAOSwpDdVfrz7

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=127296

Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

steven mandell

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 12:11:19 PM »
Amazing equipment and results.
I suppose with an outlay of just a few hundred quid, some practice and innovation, I could become a panel creator/ beater too.
Sounds like fun, and skill set that I could enjoy honing, should the need arise.

I especially like your idea of scooping out a formative surface from a tree stump.
Another piece of unwanted trash that I am guilty of not grinding into oblivion.  They are just so useful for sitting on, working on the chain saw blade on, perching an anvil or other piece of steel that you need to beat on, or what have you.
Next best is just a section of free tree trunk laid upon the ground with its vertical axis orientation maintained.  Not quite as solid, but can be rolled and erected on more convenient grounds.

Might make a good jump off point for what I did today.
See " wheel splicing" coming soon.

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2016, 10:46:03 PM »
Thanks Steven - I'd definitely advise anyone to have a go at the panel beating aluminium. We'll look forward to your wheel splicing!
Malcolm
Bond Mk D - "The Bond Minicar solves your problem"
Nobel 200 - "Almost as cheap as breathing!"

Big Al

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Re: FIVE PAGES in Practical Classics, May 2016
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 08:01:00 AM »
A skill I never picked up. Some folk seem to have a feel for how the sheet will flow. Watching a panel beater is fascinating. Must be a rewarding skill to make a beautiful shape from something pretty dead, like flat sheet.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs