Author Topic: broken hinge  (Read 9047 times)

Jonathan Poll

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 10:23:15 PM »
Aluminium can be chromed. Have you not seen the MOC albert mirrors? The chrome peels off them like a tangerine but chrome plated they are! in fact recently I saw a platers advert showing how he chrome plated an apple!

I only see original mirrors  ;D

Of course chrome can be plated, I remember my dad telling me that I cant get my mower cylinder repaired (it has a sort of scratch in the cylinder causing it to burn oil), and my dad said it would be too expensive, since its ali, and it will need to be rechromed!
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Bob Purton

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 11:08:27 PM »
"of course chrome can be plated"??

Big Al

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 08:42:15 AM »

I am sorry but you really are living in the past Al.  The reason there are not any Pattern makers about is because they are no longer necessary.  Like so many trades, they are a thing of the past. 

If the hinge were drawn up in CAD a perfect hinge could be machined from solid.  Probably an almost economical way of producing a one-off (and easy to make another one or two exact copies as the CAD is always available).

Have an open mind to progress, it's not all bad.


I fear you are probably totally correct. I am technophobic beyond a certain level. An Amish of computerised technology.

My only question is that there must be a way to factor in the amount extra for shrinkage of materials upon cooling a casting. I guess this is now in the form of a program of data available for $25 to add to the CAD programming. The depressing side of learning a trade's set of data only to see it reduced to a commodity. Made from solid of course removes the need for that element of the job as well.

One day I am sure we will have sockets fitted so a blue tooth sort of thing can be inserted and we can programme our additional memory to a suit of knowledge for the tasks of the day, rabbit on 'phones and not get lost even in Wal Mart. Will that be the start of people living longer or for ever as the organic and silica brains begin to merge outlasting bodies? Progress but a bit scary.



Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Big Al

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 08:54:56 AM »
Aluminium can be chromed. Have you not seen the MOC albert mirrors? The chrome peels off them like a tangerine but chrome plated they are! in fact recently I saw a platers advert showing how he chrome plated an apple!

While agreeing that those repro mirrors were a bit of a disappointment can I point out that Schmitt Albert mirrors were Aluminium - eer ignorance time, annealed? Certianly they have a shiny resistant surface. Once removed the ali corrodes quite fast.
There were several types of Albert mirror head used, all a similar shape with shared mirror lens but I believe none were chromed. The Volvo and Fiat - Opel? however had chromed mirrors and stems. It is for this reason that the Schmitt/Goggo mirror stem is hard to find in chrome, though it does exist and is lower grade alloy classed as Mazak. I think these were from things like Goggo 700 and possibly Lloyd.
The Roadster/Tiger Mirror and KR15 and early KR200 oblong mirrors were both chromed assemblies but oddly the Tiger unit has an Ali spacer and the 175 an ali base plate.

None of this matters unless you want a prize.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Barry

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 09:13:36 AM »

I am sorry but you really are living in the past Al.  The reason there are not any Pattern makers about is because they are no longer necessary.  Like so many trades, they are a thing of the past.  

If the hinge were drawn up in CAD a perfect hinge could be machined from solid.  Probably an almost economical way of producing a one-off (and easy to make another one or two exact copies as the CAD is always available).

Have an open mind to progress, it's not all bad.


I fear you are probably totally correct. I am technophobic beyond a certain level. An Amish of computerised technology.

My only question is that there must be a way to factor in the amount extra for shrinkage of materials upon cooling a casting. I guess this is now in the form of a program of data available for $25 to add to the CAD programming. The depressing side of learning a trade's set of data only to see it reduced to a commodity. Made from solid of course removes the need for that element of the job as well.

One day I am sure we will have sockets fitted so a blue tooth sort of thing can be inserted and we can programme our additional memory to a suit of knowledge for the tasks of the day, rabbit on 'phones and not get lost even in Wal Mart. Will that be the start of people living longer or for ever as the organic and silica brains begin to merge outlasting bodies? Progress but a bit scary.




I think you are right in many ways Al.  It really is a shame that so many skilled trades are being consumed.  We are at a long transition stage where there is still the expertise gained from years of experience within the industry.  This experience is still available to the newcomers with computer skills or the old timers that have made the transition.  Before long all of the old timers will have expired along with their knowledge.   Perhaps your plug-in memory device could be used to download the contents of a boiler makers brain just before they go towards the light.  I think the contents of your brain may already be encrypted!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 09:15:11 AM by Isetta_Owner »

Big Al

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 09:35:03 AM »
Perhaps your plug-in memory device could be used to download the contents of a boiler makers brain just before they go towards the light.  I think the contents of your brain may already be encrypted!

It would be great to store world knowledge thus. Indeed a Science Fiction favourite.

My Dad worked within Harwell labs and it might be I am a rejected first generation cyborgbotbrain or something. My bonce is encrypted so even I cannot get information out of it!
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 09:54:14 AM »
Aluminium can be chromed. Have you not seen the MOC albert mirrors? The chrome peels off them like a tangerine but chrome plated they are! in fact recently I saw a platers advert showing how he chrome plated an apple!

While agreeing that those repro mirrors were a bit of a disappointment can I point out that Schmitt Albert mirrors were Aluminium - eer ignorance time, annealed? Certianly they have a shiny resistant surface. Once removed the ali corrodes quite fast.
There were several types of Albert mirror head used, all a similar shape with shared mirror lens but I believe none were chromed. The Volvo and Fiat - Opel? however had chromed mirrors and stems. It is for this reason that the Schmitt/Goggo mirror stem is hard to find in chrome, though it does exist and is lower grade alloy classed as Mazak. I think these were from things like Goggo 700 and possibly Lloyd.
The Roadster/Tiger Mirror and KR15 and early KR200 oblong mirrors were both chromed assemblies but oddly the Tiger unit has an Ali spacer and the 175 an ali base plate.

None of this matters unless you want a prize.

Never the less all good info for a purist restoration. I know the repro mirrors should not have been chromed. Thats why I wasnt too disappionted that they peeled. I striped it all off of my pair and polished the alloy. Maybe it was the Goggo club that specified the plating? Did you mean that the originals were anodised?

Big Al

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2012, 10:46:35 AM »
I think that is it, anodised. One is to work the ali and than harden it with heat and the other is to prevent corrosion isn't it? Not sure If Uwe commissioned the mirrors but on the basis they had pretty accurate stems it suggests the smaller car enthusiasts were responsible or joined in an order. Why Chromed, it looks good and ultimately it is about sales in business. I believe these mirrors have gone unobtainable again.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Bob Purton

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2012, 01:34:57 PM »
Annieling is a softening process by heating to make the metal pliable before bending etc. Anodising is a coating process.

Jonathan Poll

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2012, 02:32:46 PM »
"of course chrome can be plated"??

I meant "of course ali can be plated"

 ;D

Annieling is very usefull for modelmaking, makes the plkanishing process a lot easier too.
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
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- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

richard

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Re: broken hinge
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2012, 08:54:58 PM »
thanks for the input - just back from 4 days working in Glasgow and Edinburgh , will study the replies a bit now.
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