Author Topic: Villiers 9E tuning  (Read 22576 times)

Jonathan Poll

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Villiers 9E tuning
« on: May 05, 2012, 10:26:56 pm »
Hello all,

  When I got my racing mower (for free) it had a damaged cylinder (scored inside, making it burn oil after each turn of the crank).

That seems to be the last "big" problem. My dad then said I can use a spare plain villiers engine (no gearbox, literally just crank, top, dynatart!).

I have started stripping one down, rebuilt the carb (just needs a couple of parts I will have to look for), and was wondering what sort of modifications I could do to "tune" the engine up.

Its a 197cc, but my dad said if it all works fine, I can swap the top for 250. I polished some of the inside of the carb, I heard it lets fuel in better. One mod my dad told me was ptting the piston fully up, and filing any of the piston you can see through the fuel intake of the cylinder, sometimes 1mm of the piston covering the hole, so filing it will let fuel in better).

Any other suggestions? I'm tight on money, I prefer doing mods that take time instead of money, but don't mind spending a bit.

Thanks, JP
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

Barry

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 10:40:25 pm »
The exhaust will give you a big power increase with higher revs but it needs to be tuned to the port timing.
Look-up two stroke expansion chambers on the internet - mine field.
A big carb is a must 25mm or even 30mm.
to keep some torque you should try to fit a reed valve.
raise the compression and use super unleaded.
Dont just hack off lumps of piston and ports there will be recommended dimensions out there.
If you get too much power you will put too much stress on the crank - enter the full circle race crank £££

Exhaust and big carb would be my starting point................

My Lambretta started off at 6bhp as a 150cc and is now over 18bhp as a 186cc and it goes faster than any 200cc standard Lambretta that I have ever had.

Bob Purton

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 11:11:43 pm »
It seams like a lot of trouble to go to just to cut the grass?

Jonathan Poll

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 11:23:32 pm »
Wow, thanks for that!

For the exhaust, we were going to make our own, maybe using a bond silencer (our nobel has one, and it goes incredibly well!).

I checked out expansion chamber and reed valve. That is where you need one of the twin cylinder Puch motorbikes!

For now I'll try finding a good carb and exhaust. Do I need to find one that is made for villiers 9E, or is it the type of thing I need to make fit?

Ebay time!

Thanks, JP

Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

Jonathan Poll

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 11:27:33 pm »
It seams like a lot of trouble to go to just to cut the grass?

Hehe Bob well this one doesn't even have a deck ;)

May even be able to hit 30mph...

This is why its fun! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaxuKSKMHrU&feature=fvst

And here is mine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOPOmv29eB0

It can go a lot faster, that was only 1st gear. I've tried 2nd, goes probably twice as fast. Didn't have chance to try 3rd, I ran out of fuel up the drive!
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

Big Al

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2012, 08:45:22 am »
I am slightly confused.

These sorts of mowers tend to be powered by Kohler/Striggs with Bratton etc which are four stroke and cheap enough to source in the UK. I bought some new Kohler stuff for my old Bolens cheap enough. Not for racing as it is a 'Classic Garden Mower' - Oh yes!

The walk behinds can have Villiers on them and are converted to pull a low slung 'roller' to race. These can be very highly tuned using kart bits.

Marc just bought a Hewland engine ready to fit for under £200. I think that is some 65 bhp. The cheap way to performance is to get rid of our fav old junk and go with newer, better technology now out of date.

Of course that ignores the innate fun of messing around with what you have got but experience suggests that there is a degree of difficulty the leads to projects not getting completed successfully. A villiers powered ride on would seem to be starting to fall into that area as Striggs with Bratton are tunable and used for racing formula.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

Jonathan Poll

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2012, 10:27:57 am »
I am slightly confused.

These sorts of mowers tend to be powered by Kohler/Striggs with Bratton etc which are four stroke and cheap enough to source in the UK. I bought some new Kohler stuff for my old Bolens cheap enough. Not for racing as it is a 'Classic Garden Mower' - Oh yes!

The walk behinds can have Villiers on them and are converted to pull a low slung 'roller' to race. These can be very highly tuned using kart bits.

Marc just bought a Hewland engine ready to fit for under £200. I think that is some 65 bhp. The cheap way to performance is to get rid of our fav old junk and go with newer, better technology now out of date.

Of course that ignores the innate fun of messing around with what you have got but experience suggests that there is a degree of difficulty the leads to projects not getting completed successfully. A villiers powered ride on would seem to be starting to fall into that area as Striggs with Bratton are tunable and used for racing formula.

Yep, it has a Briggs, but the cylinder is dammaged, causing it to burn a bit of oil. Its also not the best engine! At least with Villiers I will be able to find any part I need quite easily.

JP
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

Bob Purton

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 01:18:29 pm »
I watched the clips and quite honestly cant see the
fascination, I thought mower racing would be old Suffolk Punch's with  little wheeled boggy's on the back to carry the driver.  You may as well buy an ATV/quad. At least that way the suspension would be set up for that kind of terrain. Still, what ever floats your boat!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 03:59:00 pm by Bob Purton »

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2012, 06:42:09 pm »
I don't know about Jonathan's efforts, but with lawnmower racing I think there's more than just a little Jackass-type masochism involved. I was talking to a journalist once whose editor had entered him into a 24 hour lawnmower race, although he played rugby, he could only cope with a few hours and said it took him weeks before he could see straight afterwards. There must be something addictive about it as they've been racing them since the 1960s. Definately not my cup of tea either!

http://youtu.be/TLgcqSKCfHs

Malcolm
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Jonathan Poll

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2012, 08:13:38 pm »
Well, as you said, we like what we like :)

What I really like about it, is building it. Fine, it can be very frustrating at times, but still fun.

As a "kid", I can't really go out and drive a car on the road, and I'm not gonna drive a microcar in the fields!

Its fun bouncing around like hell, and it feels quite fast when you're on it.

I don't like quads as much, but I have only driven recent ones. ITs just not the same, can't really explain... I guess you can say its similar difference from a Smart and a schmitt?

Anyway, I've started putting the Villiers engine back together. Luckily the bearings that were in it all seem fine.

I may even fit the gearbox, letting me have a lower low gear, and higher high gear. I may even see about chain drive, but I'll have to check out prices of the parts!
Cars: Messerschmitt KR200, Nobel 200
Mopeds:
- Peugeot BB3SP, BB3T, BB3 "BITZA", BB VT, BB104,  TSA, Bima Luxe,
- Motobecane: 50V, M7 SL, 51 Club, EV50
- Other mopeds: Malaguti Superquattro, Solex 2200, Puch Monza, Puch Maxi

Big Al

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 08:46:37 am »
I don't know about Jonathan's efforts, but with lawnmower racing I think there's more than just a little Jackass-type masochism involved. I was talking to a journalist once whose editor had entered him into a 24 hour lawnmower race, although he played rugby, he could only cope with a few hours and said it took him weeks before he could see straight afterwards. There must be something addictive about it as they've been racing them since the 1960s. Definately not my cup of tea either!

http://youtu.be/TLgcqSKCfHs



I like it. The very fact that quads got invented and are probably as quick for less money is not the point. It is a group of nutters going somewhere to have a good laugh, preferably without interferance. Indeed like it used to be with Bubblecars quite frankly. Until someone invented campervans so you can take loads of stuff with you to a microcar rally. Yep, progress is fantastic but also often very boring. I could quite get into lawn mower racing, cheap cheerful fun.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs

AndrewG

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 01:58:51 pm »
I could quite get into lawn mower racing, cheap cheerful fun.

A bit 'fancy', if you ask me, what with the sitting-down an' all.

Those looking for cheap cheerful fun should look no further than moped endurance racing - an 'ard man's sport....

Rusty Chrome (Malcolm Parker)

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 06:55:19 pm »
I could quite get into lawn mower racing, cheap cheerful fun.

A bit 'fancy', if you ask me, what with the sitting-down an' all.

Those looking for cheap cheerful fun should look no further than moped endurance racing - an 'ard man's sport....

Ere, this is sposed to be a decent forum, we don't want your kind peddling gear.
Malcolm
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Big Al

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Re: Villiers 9E tuning
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2012, 09:38:57 am »
I could quite get into lawn mower racing, cheap cheerful fun.

A bit 'fancy', if you ask me, what with the sitting-down an' all.

Those looking for cheap cheerful fun should look no further than moped endurance racing - an 'ard man's sport....

Moped endurance racing. I cannot think of a motor sport I am less well built for, plus I am rubbish on a motorcycle which is why you will never see me on one. I fear I am doomed to inhabit the pits getting dirty supporting those folk without excess weight and the skills to race rather than do it myself. A position I would happily occupy for the right folks as it still offers more fun than many things out there. Besides it means you can be very irritating when your guy makes a cock of the whole thing. I am quite skilled at that.

It is clear that there should be far more active participation in apparently stupid motoring activities. The deal is women, or partners to be PC, can do shopping without heckling, as that is equally a totally stupid activity, despite most of them establishing this as normal behaviour at the Petrolheads loss of equal status.
Messerschmitt set, Goggo Darts, Heinkel 175, Fiat Jolly, Autobianchi, Fairthorpe Electron Minor, Borgward, Isuzu Trooper
Citroen BX 17TZD & GTI 16v
Held - MG Magnette ZB & 4/44
For sale - Vellam Isetta, Bamby, AC Type 70, Velorex, Church Pod, Reliant Mk5, KR200,  Saab 96, Bellemy Trials, Citroen BXs